Confocal Microscopy List

Image Fusion

Classic

List

Threaded

9 messages Options

Jeremy Sanderson-3

Image Fusion

A PhD student who uses my facility complains that
she
*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
*****

Dear Listers,

A PhD student who uses my facility complains that
she cannot fuse the two images seen through a binocular head into one image.

I have measured
her inter-ocular distance, and set this on the (Siedentopf) binocular heads of
various microscopes. I have also checked which is her dominant eye and asked
whether she has astigmatism, which she does not have. She is not old enough to
suffer from presbyopia, but is myopic in both eyes (-2,5D) and so wears contact
lenses.

The strange thing is, she has absolutely no
problem with using binoculars or monocular spotting ‘scopes, just binocular
microscopes. I’ve got her to use and adjust four different binoculars and
monocular telescopes, and she can see distant images perfectly with these and fuse them into one field of view.

Can anyone shed any light on why this might be so?
This young lady has to use stereo-microscopes in her work, and we’re struggling
to find answers to help her do this.

Best regards,
Jeremy

Guy Cox-2

Re: Image Fusion

Jeremy,

I don't have an answer but have you asked her to try without her contact lenses and adjust the eyepieces as appropriate? It seems logical to me to eliminate all unnecessary extraneous optical elements.

Guy

-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jeremy Sanderson
Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 12:27 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Image Fusion

A PhD student who uses my facility complains that
she
*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
*****

Dear Listers,

A PhD student who uses my facility complains that
she cannot fuse the two images seen through a binocular head into one image.

I have measured
her inter-ocular distance, and set this on the (Siedentopf) binocular heads of
various microscopes. I have also checked which is her dominant eye and asked
whether she has astigmatism, which she does not have. She is not old enough to
suffer from presbyopia, but is myopic in both eyes (-2,5D) and so wears contact
lenses.

The strange thing is, she has absolutely no
problem with using binoculars or monocular spotting ‘scopes, just binocular
microscopes. I’ve got her to use and adjust four different binoculars and
monocular telescopes, and she can see distant images perfectly with these and fuse them into one field of view.

Can anyone shed any light on why this might be so?
This young lady has to use stereo-microscopes in her work, and we’re struggling
to find answers to help her do this.

Best regards,
Jeremy

JOEL B. SHEFFIELD

Re: Image Fusion

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
*****

Several thoughts:

1. Has she tried various interpupilary settings on the microscopes as well
as the one you set?

2. Are you using high eyepoint oculars? As Guy suggests, the contacts may
play a role in this.

3. Could there be a prism effect? i.e. one image is higher than another.

4. Can she see monocularly in these scopes?

Joel

On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 9:07 AM, Guy Cox <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Jeremy,
>
> I don't have an answer but have you asked her to try
> without her contact lenses and adjust the eyepieces as appropriate? It
> seems logical to me to eliminate all unnecessary extraneous optical
> elements.
>
> Guy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]]
> On Behalf Of Jeremy Sanderson
> Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 12:27 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Image Fusion
>
> A PhD student who uses my facility complains that
> she
> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> *****
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> A PhD student who uses my facility complains that
> she cannot fuse the two images seen through a binocular head into one
> image.
>
> I have measured
> her inter-ocular distance, and set this on the (Siedentopf) binocular
> heads of
> various microscopes. I have also checked which is her dominant eye and
> asked
> whether she has astigmatism, which she does not have. She is not old
> enough to
> suffer from presbyopia, but is myopic in both eyes (-2,5D) and so wears
> contact
> lenses.
>
> The strange thing is, she has absolutely no
> problem with using binoculars or monocular spotting ‘scopes, just binocular
> microscopes. I’ve got her to use and adjust four different binoculars and
> monocular telescopes, and she can see distant images perfectly with these
> and fuse them into one field of view.
>
>
> Can anyone shed any light on why this might be so?
> This young lady has to use stereo-microscopes in her work, and we’re
> struggling
> to find answers to help her do this.
>
> Best regards,
> Jeremy
>

--

Joel B. Sheffield, Ph.D
Department of Biology
Temple University
Philadelphia, PA 19122
Voice: 215 204 8839
e-mail: [hidden email]
URL: http://astro.temple.edu/~jbs

Oshel, Philip Eugene

Re: Image Fusion

In reply to this post by Jeremy Sanderson-3

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
*****

Jeremy,

What sort of optical tube arrangement do the stereoscopes she's tried
have? Converging tube or parallel tube? If converging, that could easily
be the problem - she can't cross her eyes to stay on the eyetubes'
optical path.

Phil

On 09/23/2013 10:27 , Jeremy Sanderson wrote:

> A PhD student who uses my facility complains that
> she
> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> *****
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> A PhD student who uses my facility complains that
> she cannot fuse the two images seen through a binocular head into one image.
>
> I have measured
> her inter-ocular distance, and set this on the (Siedentopf) binocular heads of
> various microscopes. I have also checked which is her dominant eye and asked
> whether she has astigmatism, which she does not have. She is not old enough to
> suffer from presbyopia, but is myopic in both eyes (-2,5D) and so wears contact
> lenses.
>
> The strange thing is, she has absolutely no
> problem with using binoculars or monocular spotting ‘scopes, just binocular
> microscopes. I’ve got her to use and adjust four different binoculars and
> monocular telescopes, and she can see distant images perfectly with these and fuse them into one field of view.
>
>
> Can anyone shed any light on why this might be so?
> This young lady has to use stereo-microscopes in her work, and we’re struggling
> to find answers to help her do this.
>
> Best regards,
> Jeremy
>

--
Philip Oshel
Microscopy Facility Supervisor
Biology Department
024C Brooks Hall
Central Michigan University
Mt. Pleasant, MI 48859
(989) 774-3576

Linda Barthel

Re: Image Fusion

In reply to this post by JOEL B. SHEFFIELD

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
*****

Also she should try to adjust her distance for and aft from the oculars.
This is just as critical as the interpupilary settings.
Linda Barthel

* Microscopy & Image-analysis Laboratory-North *
Biomedical Research Core Facilities
2800 Plymouth Rd, Rm 53S, Bdg 20
Ann Arbor, MI 48109-2800

On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:20 AM, JOEL B. SHEFFIELD <[hidden email]> wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> *****
>
> Several thoughts:
>
> 1. Has she tried various interpupilary settings on the microscopes as well
> as the one you set?
>
> 2. Are you using high eyepoint oculars? As Guy suggests, the contacts may
> play a role in this.
>
> 3. Could there be a prism effect? i.e. one image is higher than another.
>
> 4. Can she see monocularly in these scopes?
>
> Joel
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 9:07 AM, Guy Cox <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Jeremy,
> >
> > I don't have an answer but have you asked her to try
> > without her contact lenses and adjust the eyepieces as appropriate? It
> > seems logical to me to eliminate all unnecessary extraneous optical
> > elements.
> >
> > Guy
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]]
> > On Behalf Of Jeremy Sanderson
> > Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 12:27 AM
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: Image Fusion
> >
> > A PhD student who uses my facility complains that
> > she
> > *****
> > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> > http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> > *****
> >
> > Dear Listers,
> >
> > A PhD student who uses my facility complains that
> > she cannot fuse the two images seen through a binocular head into one
> > image.
> >
> > I have measured
> > her inter-ocular distance, and set this on the (Siedentopf) binocular
> > heads of
> > various microscopes. I have also checked which is her dominant eye and
> > asked
> > whether she has astigmatism, which she does not have. She is not old
> > enough to
> > suffer from presbyopia, but is myopic in both eyes (-2,5D) and so wears
> > contact
> > lenses.
> >
> > The strange thing is, she has absolutely no
> > problem with using binoculars or monocular spotting ‘scopes, just
> binocular
> > microscopes. I’ve got her to use and adjust four different binoculars and
> > monocular telescopes, and she can see distant images perfectly with these
> > and fuse them into one field of view.
> >
> >
> > Can anyone shed any light on why this might be so?
> > This young lady has to use stereo-microscopes in her work, and we’re
> > struggling
> > to find answers to help her do this.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Jeremy
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Joel B. Sheffield, Ph.D
> Department of Biology
> Temple University
> Philadelphia, PA 19122
> Voice: 215 204 8839
> e-mail: [hidden email]
> URL: http://astro.temple.edu/~jbs
>

--
Linda Barthel, M.S.
*Research Laboratory Specialist Lead*

*Department of Molecular, Cellular, and Developmental Biology*
3010 Natural Sciences Building (Kraus)
830 N. University
Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1048
lab: (734) 764-7476
fax: (734) 647-0884
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~praymond/

* Microscopy & Image-analysis Laboratory-North *
Biomedical Research Core Facilities
2800 Plymouth Rd, Rm 53S, Bdg 20
Ann Arbor, MI 48109-2800

office: (734) 763-0703
fax: (734) 647-9306
http://www.umncrc.org

mcammer

Re: Image Fusion

In reply to this post by Jeremy Sanderson-3

A few people who I have shown the microscope have claimed this. They simply use one eye.

Just out of curiosity, and not to violate her rights under HIPAA, does she spatially perceive 3D in normal vision?

________________________________________________________
Michael Cammer, Assistant Research Scientist
Microscopy Core, NYU Langone Medical Center & Skirball Institute of Biomolecular Medicine
Cell: (914) 309-3270 Microscopy Lab: (212) 263-7099 Dustin Lab: (212) 263-3208

-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jeremy Sanderson
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 10:27 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Image Fusion

A PhD student who uses my facility complains that she
*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
*****

Dear Listers,

A PhD student who uses my facility complains that she cannot fuse the two images seen through a binocular head into one image.

I have measured
her inter-ocular distance, and set this on the (Siedentopf) binocular heads of various microscopes. I have also checked which is her dominant eye and asked whether she has astigmatism, which she does not have. She is not old enough to suffer from presbyopia, but is myopic in both eyes (-2,5D) and so wears contact lenses.

The strange thing is, she has absolutely no problem with using binoculars or monocular spotting ‘scopes, just binocular microscopes. I’ve got her to use and adjust four different binoculars and monocular telescopes, and she can see distant images perfectly with these and fuse them into one field of view.

Can anyone shed any light on why this might be so?
This young lady has to use stereo-microscopes in her work, and we’re struggling to find answers to help her do this.

Best regards,
Jeremy

Tim Holmes

Re: Image Fusion

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
*****

It may be overkill, but in principle you should be able to set up a stereo camera digitally by feeding the 2 tubes to separate cameras while she views through stereo goggles. You'd give up the dynamic range of direct eye viewing. A lot of work to do for a small segment of the population, of course.

-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Cammer, Michael
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 11:06 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Image Fusion

A few people who I have shown the microscope have claimed this. They simply use one eye.

Just out of curiosity, and not to violate her rights under HIPAA, does she spatially perceive 3D in normal vision?

________________________________________________________
Michael Cammer, Assistant Research Scientist Microscopy Core, NYU Langone Medical Center & Skirball Institute of Biomolecular Medicine
Cell: (914) 309-3270 Microscopy Lab: (212) 263-7099 Dustin Lab: (212) 263-3208

-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jeremy Sanderson
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 10:27 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Image Fusion

A PhD student who uses my facility complains that she
*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
*****

Dear Listers,

A PhD student who uses my facility complains that she cannot fuse the two images seen through a binocular head into one image.

I have measured
her inter-ocular distance, and set this on the (Siedentopf) binocular heads of various microscopes. I have also checked which is her dominant eye and asked whether she has astigmatism, which she does not have. She is not old enough to suffer from presbyopia, but is myopic in both eyes (-2,5D) and so wears contact lenses.

The strange thing is, she has absolutely no problem with using binoculars or monocular spotting ‘scopes, just binocular microscopes. I’ve got her to use and adjust four different binoculars and monocular telescopes, and she can see distant images perfectly with these and fuse them into one field of view.

Can anyone shed any light on why this might be so?
This young lady has to use stereo-microscopes in her work, and we’re struggling to find answers to help her do this.

Best regards,
Jeremy

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4117 / Virus Database: 3604/6695 - Release Date: 09/24/13

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4117 / Virus Database: 3604/6697 - Release Date: 09/25/13

Gregg Sobocinski

Re: Image Fusion

In reply to this post by JOEL B. SHEFFIELD

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
*****

Personal anecdote: When I first used binocular microscopes after college, I
would always see double images during my dozens of hours of EM sectioning
and section evaluation, no matter what the settings were on the
microscopes. After a few months, I was looking through the eyepieces, not
touching the compound microscope, and the images 'magically' moved together
and "fused" over a period that seemed long, but probably only lasted a
second or two. I have not had a problem viewing binocular images since
then. I did not wear glasses or contacts at that time.

I theorize that some kind of adjustment occurred in my brain, but never
pursued any other explanation. If she has time to just stick with it, and
ignore the second image for awhile, her brain may compensate.

I'm sure that wasn't too helpful, but perhaps hopeful.

Good luck,
~Gregg
--
*Gregg Sobocinski*
Microscope Imaging Specialist
University of Michigan, MCDB Dept.
Ann Arbor, Michigan

On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:20 AM, JOEL B. SHEFFIELD <[hidden email]> wrote:

Craig Brideau

Re: Image Fusion

In reply to this post by Oshel, Philip Eugene

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
*****

Has she ever been to a new generation 3D movie, or seen a 3d TV? I find the
brain has to work a bit initially to fuze the two images. Also, if one eye
is strongly dominant over the other she will have problems. It can improve
with practice: I had to learn to relax my eyes and let them focus
naturally. The more you strain the worse it gets.

Craig
On 2013-09-25 10:32 AM, "Philip Oshel" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/**wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy<http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy>
> *****
>
> Jeremy,
>
> What sort of optical tube arrangement do the stereoscopes she's tried
> have? Converging tube or parallel tube? If converging, that could easily be
> the problem - she can't cross her eyes to stay on the eyetubes' optical
> path.
>
> Phil
>
> On 09/23/2013 10:27 , Jeremy Sanderson wrote:
>
>> A PhD student who uses my facility complains that
>> she
>> *****
>> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
>> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/**wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy<http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy>
>> *****
>>
>> Dear Listers,
>>
>> A PhD student who uses my facility complains that
>> she cannot fuse the two images seen through a binocular head into one
>> image.
>>
>> I have measured
>> her inter-ocular distance, and set this on the (Siedentopf) binocular
>> heads of
>> various microscopes. I have also checked which is her dominant eye and
>> asked
>> whether she has astigmatism, which she does not have. She is not old
>> enough to
>> suffer from presbyopia, but is myopic in both eyes (-2,5D) and so wears
>> contact
>> lenses.
>>
>> The strange thing is, she has absolutely no
>> problem with using binoculars or monocular spotting ‘scopes, just
>> binocular
>> microscopes. I’ve got her to use and adjust four different binoculars and
>> monocular telescopes, and she can see distant images perfectly with these
>> and fuse them into one field of view.
>>
>>
>> Can anyone shed any light on why this might be so?
>> This young lady has to use stereo-microscopes in her work, and we’re
>> struggling
>> to find answers to help her do this.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Jeremy
>>
>>
> --
> Philip Oshel
> Microscopy Facility Supervisor
> Biology Department
> 024C Brooks Hall
> Central Michigan University
> Mt. Pleasant, MI 48859
> (989) 774-3576
>