Practical question about ZEISS LSM 510 - conclusion

[Michelle Aloni]

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I want to THANK EVERYBODY, who offered a helping hand in one way or another.


At the end we didn't need to send anything out at all. :-)

After reading all replies, I started thinking in more detail. Yes, there was
oil coming from the bottom of the lenses and yes there was squishy sound
while I was trying to press the top and drain and wipe everything that would
show within my reach. I realized that my cleaning is mostly cosmetic. With
time, the movement in the lens slowed down, which could be only due to the
oil inside getting old and solid. This worried me a lot.
However, we were still getting good images. If the optical way was
compromised, the images would have been bad to impossible to take.

After calling ZEISS, the only answer I got was - send it in for evaluation
and service.
For years we had Don Elsmore service our NIKON confocal and he would not
only fix all problems, but give us explanation of what is going on and why.
I decided to bother him again, no matter that the ZEISS was not his
responsibility.  I was very lucky to catch him while he was in town.

He came and opened the metal jacket of the 63X. Inside there was oil which
had already changed its color to green from the reaction with the
surrounding copper parts... To my big surprise, the actual lens was a
separate compact body inside the shiny metal jacket or casing that we
usually handle. He carefully cleaned all metal parts, looked at the glass
part and cleaned it, put everything back together and now everything is as
good as new. Needless to say we are extremely happy!!!

My last thought on the subject - If you don't know what you are dealing
with, it certainly helps to know people who do.

I hope that my embarrassing experience can be and will be useful for other
ZEISS users with the same problem.

Have a nice weekend and thanks again for your time and support
Michelle


Michelle Aloni MS, HTL (ASCP)
Research Specialist
USC Keck School of Medicine
Los Angeles CA, 90033


-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Jacqui Ross
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 1:38 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Practical question (cry for help) about ZEISS LSM 510

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I recommend trying the polystyrene method suggested recently by Guy Cox. It
worked brilliantly for one of our dry objective lenses that had somehow got
coated in something. You do need to do it under a stereo as suggested by
Christine.

Kind regards,

Jacqui

Jacqueline Ross

Biomedical Imaging Microscopist
Biomedical Imaging Research Unit
School of Medical Sciences
Faculty of Medical & Health Sciences
The University of Auckland
Private Bag 92019
Auckland, NEW ZEALAND

Tel: [phone] Ext 87438
Fax: [phone]

http://www.fmhs.auckland.ac.nz/sms/biru/


-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Christine Davis
Sent: Friday, 21 October 2011 7:33 a.m.
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Practical question (cry for help) about ZEISS LSM 510

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I agree it can take 2-3 months to get an objective back.  I'd look at it
under the stereo scope and try cleaning it.  Also you can wrap the objective
in lens paper, put it in it's case, and turning it upside down (atleast
overnight).  This might help leach some oil out.  If oil has gotten inside
on the lens then it wont cure your problem.  If oil has loaded itself on/in
the shelf below the lens it will help.  Maybe you can get a good enough
image on one or two lenses to give yourself time to get one properly fixed.

Christie Davis

On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 11:28 AM, Cammer, Michael <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> *****
>
> A one-time insurance investment we made in a previous lab was
> purchasing a spare favorite objective, in this case an Olympus 60X
> N.A. 1.4 which worked great on both our Olympus and Zeiss stands.  The
> up front cost may be great, but over a few years, especially in a fee
generating facility, it pays off.

>  (Just my $6k.)
> -Michael C.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Confocal Microscopy List
> [mailto:[hidden email]]
> On Behalf Of Craig Brideau
> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 1:17 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: Practical question (cry for help) about ZEISS LSM 510
>
> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> *****
>
> Franky, most microscope companies take a very long time to do repairs.  
> In our lab we learned our lesson a while ago.  When some grant money
> came up we purchased a duplicate of our most critical lens and kept it
> in safe storage.  When the lens on the microscope was inevitably
> broken we were able to swap in the back-up lens while waiting for the
> damaged one to be repaired.  In my experience it takes about 6-8 weeks
> for a repair to go through.  Have you other listers seen better or
> worse times?
>
> Craig
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 6:54 PM, Michelle MacVeigh-Aloni
> <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
> > *****
> > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> > http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> > *****
> >
> > Hi list,
> >
> > We have a ZEISS LSM 510 confocal microscope in our busy core.
> >
> > Unfortunately, immersion oil got into our 40X oil and 63X oil lenses
> > and maybe even in the 20X air.  I was told that they should be send
> > to
> Germany
> > for repair. This would be fine, but no one knows how long it will
> > take before we can get them back...
> >
> > ZEISS guys in Los Angeles told me that they don't have lenses to loan...
> >
> > Our schedule for the users  is full every day (even on weekends).  
> > We
> can't
> > close the core!
> >
> > What do you guys do when something like this happen? There is no way
> > that we are the first facility facing this problem.
> >
> > After we got in trouble, we learned our lesson the hard way and
> > everybody is now extremely careful, plus we purchased and are using
> > the special
> collar
> > which protects the lenses of the inverted microscope...  One way or
> another
> > the damage is already done and we need help.
> >
> > Is there someone out there that might be able to loan us a lens or
> > two
> for
> > AXIO Observer Z1 for the duration of the cleaning/repair of our lenses?
> >
> > If you want to, you can contact me off the list at [hidden email]
> >
> > Your advice or help  would be highly appreciated
> >
> > Michelle Aloni MS, HTL (ASCP)
> > Research Specialist
> > USC Keck School of Medicine LA, CA
> >
>
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[mcammer]

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The Olympus objectives are also like this.  The dichroic mirrors in the filter blocks are oil catchers.  When you see spots and uneven illumination in the images, it's time to clean the objective.
-mc

-----Original Message-----


He came and opened the metal jacket of the 63X. Inside there was oil which
had already changed its color to green from the reaction with the
surrounding copper parts... To my big surprise, the actual lens was a
separate compact body inside the shiny metal jacket or casing that we
usually handle. He carefully cleaned all metal parts, looked at the glass
part and cleaned it, put everything back together and now everything is as
good as new. Needless to say we are extremely happy!!!



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[Keith Morris]

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By the way, you normally can't open up a Zeiss objective in the manner you
describe as the locking cap is screwed on far too tight [I think they must
be glued on]. I assume that when they go back for repair the locking nut
[the ring collar bit with the colour stripe on it, just below the top of the
objective] will be damaged getting it off and a new one fitted [it's only a
thin bit of metal]. Occasionally the oil seems to release this locking nut
on the objective and then you can get at the inner barrel and spring
assembly and wipe the oil out - it's happened to our 63x Plan Apo. We had a
similar discussion on this topic [Stuck Zeiss objective - April 2011] a few
months ago. Last year the Zeiss quoted cost of repair for our 40x Plan Fluar
oil objective was little different to buying a new one [i.e. it was 'not
economic to repair'].

If your inverted microscope objective 'inner space' between the two barrels
is filled with oil, the Zeiss engineer's recommend that you leave the
objective standing on Kimwipe tissues overnight for the oil to drain out -
otherwise it will drain into the microscope internal optics under the
nosepiece and damage from this may be treated as 'user abuse' by Zeiss and
not covered by the maintenance contract. Disposable small cotton hair bands
wrapped round the top of the objective do really help keep the oil out*. If
unused, I replace my immersion oil bottle every year or so as apparently the
oil becomes significantly more acidic with storage - hence the green coppery
oil sludge found inside the objective.

I wouldn't try washing the oil out from inside the objective inner channel
by dripping solvents down from the top crevice, as although it works, it
seems it can easily get liquids inside the lens barrel and on to the
internal optics - i.e. the base/rear of the Zeiss objective appears less oil
tight than the top.    

Regards

Keith

*See
http://www.well.ox.ac.uk/cytogenetics/objective_hair_band.jpg
It's the blue ringed collar and the single grub screw that has to be removed
to disassemble the outer objective barrel and spring mechanism, although on
most Zeiss objectives even mole grips won't shift that collar as it's
screwed on so tight.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr Keith J. Morris,
Molecular Cytogenetics and Microscopy Core,
Laboratory 00/069 and 00/070,
The Wellcome Trust Centre for Human Genetics,
Roosevelt Drive,
Oxford  OX3 7BN,
United Kingdom.

Telephone:  [phone]
Email:  [hidden email]
Web-pages: http://www.well.ox.ac.uk/molecular-cytogenetics-and-microscopy


-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Cammer, Michael
Sent: 24 October 2011 19:17
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Practical question about ZEISS LSM 510 - conclusion

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To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
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The Olympus objectives are also like this.  The dichroic mirrors in the
filter blocks are oil catchers.  When you see spots and uneven illumination
in the images, it's time to clean the objective.
-mc

-----Original Message-----


He came and opened the metal jacket of the 63X. Inside there was oil which
had already changed its color to green from the reaction with the
surrounding copper parts... To my big surprise, the actual lens was a
separate compact body inside the shiny metal jacket or casing that we
usually handle. He carefully cleaned all metal parts, looked at the glass
part and cleaned it, put everything back together and now everything is as
good as new. Needless to say we are extremely happy!!!



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unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you
have received this email in error please notify the sender by return email
and delete the original message. Please note, the recipient should check
this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The organization
accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this
email.
=================================

[Claire Brown]

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We wrap a small piece of filter paper around the top of the lens and push it
into the gap between the casing and the lens. Then we put the lens in the
holder and put it upside down overnight.

Claire