Problems with Red Safe

[Claudia Campos-2]

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Dear all,

I know this is a bit out of the list scope, but I have to share it.

Our institute shifted from EtBromide to Red safe about a year ago. After
this, we had to create a specific room for Et Br because nobody could do
regular cloning with Red safe. Not so good, but feasable.

In our lab we also realized that whenever you do a restriction, just to
check minipreps, you ALWAYS have to clean up your restriction with a column,
otherwise you don't see any DNA on a Red safe gel (and it really looks like
an empty gel!).

The bad thing is that when i got in contact with the company, they just
replied that when testing the product they always purified DNA, and that we
should concentrate it. They didn't provide any further explanation on why
the gel seems completely empty if we don't clean up our restriction (an
extra step that costs money and time!).

Does any one else has the same problem?

If it goes on like this, we may seriously consider shifting back to Et
Bromide and letting go red safe...

Thanks for any feedback!

Cheers

--
Cláudia Campos
Lab manager - Cell Biophysics and Development Lab
Instituto Gulbenkian Ciência
R. Quinta Grande, nº6
2781-154 Oeiras PT
Tel:+ 351 214 464 608
http://www.igc.gulbenkian.pt/research/unit/38

[Coutu, Cathy]

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Hi Cláudia,

We use EnviroSafe Gel Dye (Helixx Technologies cat #HDS001-3 for international orders, $175/3 ml, use 5 ul/30 ml agarose gel).

We run about 320 ng of digested DNA in 7 ul in a 2mm wide x 1 mm thick well.  
We can clearly see the bands (usually looking for about 4 bands).

If you are looking for many bands, each band will appear less bright and you'll need more concentrated DNA.
If you are using a larger well, each band will appear less bright and you'll need more DNA.

You didn't mention if you incorporate the dye into your gels prior to running them, but EnviroSafe was the best dye we found for this purpose.

Cathy

Cathy Coutu, M. Sc.
Technician / Technicienne
Genomics, Bioinformatics, and other Bioinformation / Génomique, Bioinformatique et Bioinformation
Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada/Agriculture et Agroalimentaire Canada
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-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Claudia Campos
Sent: October-25-11 1:59 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Problems with Red Safe

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Dear all,

I know this is a bit out of the list scope, but I have to share it.

Our institute shifted from EtBromide to Red safe about a year ago. After
this, we had to create a specific room for Et Br because nobody could do
regular cloning with Red safe. Not so good, but feasable.

In our lab we also realized that whenever you do a restriction, just to
check minipreps, you ALWAYS have to clean up your restriction with a column,
otherwise you don't see any DNA on a Red safe gel (and it really looks like
an empty gel!).

The bad thing is that when i got in contact with the company, they just
replied that when testing the product they always purified DNA, and that we
should concentrate it. They didn't provide any further explanation on why
the gel seems completely empty if we don't clean up our restriction (an
extra step that costs money and time!).

Does any one else has the same problem?

If it goes on like this, we may seriously consider shifting back to Et
Bromide and letting go red safe...

Thanks for any feedback!

Cheers

--
Cláudia Campos
Lab manager - Cell Biophysics and Development Lab
Instituto Gulbenkian Ciência
R. Quinta Grande, nº6
2781-154 Oeiras PT
Tel:+ 351 214 464 608
http://www.igc.gulbenkian.pt/research/unit/38

[Claudia Campos-2]

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Thanks a lot for your suggestion Cathy, maybe we should move to that reagent.

In the lab we dilute red safe in the gel (usually 30 to 60 ml volume )
according to the manufacturer instructions, and we are aware that as the
fragment gets smaller, its intensity also decreases. But I was checking for
2 fragments with 2kb and 9 kb...this should be strong enough to see...

Cheers to all

--
Cláudia Campos
Lab manager - Cell Biophysics and Development Lab
Instituto Gulbenkian Ciência
R. Quinta Grande, nº6
2781-154 Oeiras PT
Tel:+ 351 214 464 608
http://www.igc.gulbenkian.pt/research/unit/38

[Naomi Book]

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Our institute has decided to install sprinkler system in the institute for
safety reasons, the engineer that planed the system has put at least one
sprinkler right above every confocal/microscope we have in our unit. Can
anyone tell me please if you have sprinklers in your microscopes room? Is
there a way to avoid this ??

Many thanks,

Naomi Book

   
Naomi Melamed-Book, Ph.D
Bio-Imaging Unit
The Alexander Silberman Institute of Life Science
Edmaond Safra Campus (G Ram)
The Hebrew University
Jerusalem 91904, Israel
phone: [phone]
Fax:[phone]
[hidden email]

[Daniel Sjolander]

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Unfortunately, yes we have a sprinkler system in our room. I think they are
of the high temperature activated variants; also they are located 5+ meter
above the floor.

//Daniel

On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 10:46 AM, Naomi Book <[hidden email]> wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> *****
>
> Our institute has decided to install sprinkler system in the institute for
> safety reasons, the engineer that planed the system has put at least one
> sprinkler right above every confocal/microscope we have in our unit. Can
> anyone tell me please if you have sprinklers in your microscopes room? Is
> there a way to avoid this ??
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Naomi Book
>
>
> Naomi Melamed-Book, Ph.D
> Bio-Imaging Unit
> The Alexander Silberman Institute of Life Science
> Edmaond Safra Campus (G Ram)
> The Hebrew University
> Jerusalem 91904, Israel
> phone: [phone]
> Fax:[phone]
> [hidden email]
>

[Rosemary.White]

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Eek!

No, we have smoke/heat detectors in every room, and low oxygen detectors
in rooms with liquid nitrogen or any type of gas outlet - CO2, Ar, N2, but
no sprinklers.  When the detectors are triggered, an unbearable alarm goes
off, we all vacate and the fire department comes immediately (they are
about 5 min away).  False alarms are expensive, though, and the alarm
system is checked every month.

If it's an institutional requirement, you may just have to provide your
instruments with covers that protect against drowning from the sprinklers.
 Perhaps you could raise the issue of replacement cost and down time if
your instruments are destroyed by triggering the sprinklers, or at least
check that insurance will cover full replacement. Your colleagues who also
depend on the instruments might help with input!

good luck,
Rosemary White

Dr Rosemary White
CSIRO Plant Industry
GPO Box 1600
Canberra, ACT 2601
Australia

T 61 2 6246 5475
F 61 2 6246 5334
E [hidden email]


On 26/10/11 7:46 PM, "Naomi Book" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>*****
>To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
>http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
>*****
>
>Our institute has decided to install sprinkler system in the institute for
>safety reasons, the engineer that planed the system has put at least one
>sprinkler right above every confocal/microscope we have in our unit. Can
>anyone tell me please if you have sprinklers in your microscopes room? Is
>there a way to avoid this ??
>
>Many thanks,
>
>Naomi Book
>
>  
>Naomi Melamed-Book, Ph.D
>Bio-Imaging Unit
>The Alexander Silberman Institute of Life Science
>Edmaond Safra Campus (G Ram)
>The Hebrew University
>Jerusalem 91904, Israel
>phone: [phone]
>Fax:[phone]
>[hidden email]

[Pascal Weber]

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no sprinklers in the room. Just smoke and O2 detectors. Anyway electronics
do not like water. I have an emergency power switch at the entrance of the
room. (Positioned vertically)

[Splatt, Peter]

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Are you aware of any other service pipes that might be in the ceiling and most importantly how to isolate them.
Regards
Peter


Peter Splatt
Experimental Officer
Bioimaging Centre
Biosciences
College of Life and Environmental Sciences
Geoffrey Pope Building
North Park Rd.
University of Exeter
Exeter
Devon
EX4 4QD
Office Tel: [phone]
Lab Tel: [phone]
Mobile: [phone]
Email: [hidden email]
Booking Email: [hidden email]



-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Naomi Book
Sent: Wednesday 26 October 2011 09:47
To: [hidden email]
Subject: sprinkler systems in microscope room

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Our institute has decided to install sprinkler system in the institute for
safety reasons, the engineer that planed the system has put at least one
sprinkler right above every confocal/microscope we have in our unit. Can
anyone tell me please if you have sprinklers in your microscopes room? Is
there a way to avoid this ??

Many thanks,

Naomi Book

   
Naomi Melamed-Book, Ph.D
Bio-Imaging Unit
The Alexander Silberman Institute of Life Science
Edmaond Safra Campus (G Ram)
The Hebrew University
Jerusalem 91904, Israel
phone: [phone]
Fax:[phone]
[hidden email]

[mcammer]

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Yes.

But first a diversion.  Worse than the sprinkler systems are the Koldwave air conditioning units that building engineers squeeze into the plenum in the tiny microscope rooms.  These are guaranteed to collect condensation that will drip, if not stream, down.  I have repeatedly been involved with renovations where we specified cooling unit locations in the plans only to be ignored by the builders.

We are in NYC and we have sprinklers installed directly over everything.  (When I was at Einstein, also in NYC, we didn't have sprinklers in the lab; I wonder whether this was a grandfather clause or some other reason.)  I bet we could not get an exception in Manhattan.  Short of building a tent over the equipment (which may or may not violate the fire code in other ways), we have to trust the plumbing.

A quick Google of the NYC fire code suggests that there is a loophole of renovating to have one hour firestop walls as per "all unsprinklered floor areas shall be segregated by one-hour fire separations into spaces or compartments not to exceed seventy-five hundred square feet."  As for relying on the plumbing, the fire code does specify, "Where connected to a standpipe riser, provision shall be made to prevent excessive pressure on the sprinkler heads."  Also, there is a provision for high pressure testing when installed.  I assume this is to check for flaws in the plumbing and the sprinkler itself.  Sprinklers are not supposed to release water unless the temperature gets hot enough to melt the valve.  

But having said all of this, I do know of a lab in the Bronx where the sprinklers failed at RT and there was a flood and it shut down the research for a while.  

After this hot air, I hope not enough to set off your sprinkler systems, good luck.  If it's an in-house institutional or insurance requirement rather than local code, they may be willing to grant an exemption with the installation of other safety monitors, as already specified on the listserv, when they see the price of the equipment.

________________________________________________________
Michael Cammer, Assistant Research Scientist
Skirball Institute of Biomolecular Medicine
Lab: [phone]  Cell: [phone]


-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Naomi Book
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 4:47 AM
Subject: sprinkler systems in microscope room

Our institute has decided to install sprinkler system in the institute for
safety reasons, the engineer that planed the system has put at least one
sprinkler right above every confocal/microscope we have in our unit. Can
anyone tell me please if you have sprinklers in your microscopes room? Is
there a way to avoid this ??

Many thanks,

Naomi Book

   
Naomi Melamed-Book, Ph.D
Bio-Imaging Unit
The Alexander Silberman Institute of Life Science
Edmaond Safra Campus (G Ram)
The Hebrew University
Jerusalem 91904, Israel
phone: [phone]
Fax:[phone]
[hidden email]

------------------------------------------------------------
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=================================

[MJ Tomaszewski]

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I know that there is some sort of special set up to protect server racks
from sprinklers, could this possibly be modified for a scope?

On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 8:55 AM, Cammer, Michael <[hidden email]
> wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> *****
>
> Yes.
>
> But first a diversion.  Worse than the sprinkler systems are the Koldwave
> air conditioning units that building engineers squeeze into the plenum in
> the tiny microscope rooms.  These are guaranteed to collect condensation
> that will drip, if not stream, down.  I have repeatedly been involved with
> renovations where we specified cooling unit locations in the plans only to
> be ignored by the builders.
>
> We are in NYC and we have sprinklers installed directly over everything.
>  (When I was at Einstein, also in NYC, we didn't have sprinklers in the lab;
> I wonder whether this was a grandfather clause or some other reason.)  I bet
> we could not get an exception in Manhattan.  Short of building a tent over
> the equipment (which may or may not violate the fire code in other ways), we
> have to trust the plumbing.
>
> A quick Google of the NYC fire code suggests that there is a loophole of
> renovating to have one hour firestop walls as per "all unsprinklered floor
> areas shall be segregated by one-hour fire separations into spaces or
> compartments not to exceed seventy-five hundred square feet."  As for
> relying on the plumbing, the fire code does specify, "Where connected to a
> standpipe riser, provision shall be made to prevent excessive pressure on
> the sprinkler heads."  Also, there is a provision for high pressure testing
> when installed.  I assume this is to check for flaws in the plumbing and the
> sprinkler itself.  Sprinklers are not supposed to release water unless the
> temperature gets hot enough to melt the valve.
>
> But having said all of this, I do know of a lab in the Bronx where the
> sprinklers failed at RT and there was a flood and it shut down the research
> for a while.
>
> After this hot air, I hope not enough to set off your sprinkler systems,
> good luck.  If it's an in-house institutional or insurance requirement
> rather than local code, they may be willing to grant an exemption with the
> installation of other safety monitors, as already specified on the listserv,
> when they see the price of the equipment.
>
> ________________________________________________________
> Michael Cammer, Assistant Research Scientist
> Skirball Institute of Biomolecular Medicine
> Lab: [phone]  Cell: [phone]
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]]
> On Behalf Of Naomi Book
> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 4:47 AM
> Subject: sprinkler systems in microscope room
>
> Our institute has decided to install sprinkler system in the institute for
> safety reasons, the engineer that planed the system has put at least one
> sprinkler right above every confocal/microscope we have in our unit. Can
> anyone tell me please if you have sprinklers in your microscopes room? Is
> there a way to avoid this ??
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Naomi Book
>
>
> Naomi Melamed-Book, Ph.D
> Bio-Imaging Unit
> The Alexander Silberman Institute of Life Science
> Edmaond Safra Campus (G Ram)
> The Hebrew University
> Jerusalem 91904, Israel
> phone: [phone]
> Fax:[phone]
> [hidden email]
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the
> intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is proprietary,
> confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Any
> unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you
> have received this email in error please notify the sender by return email
> and delete the original message. Please note, the recipient should check
> this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The organization
> accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this
> email.
> =================================
>

[Tim Feinstein-2]

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Sprinklers are not the only concern - overhead flooding has obliged me to disassemble and move a confocal under a tarp amidst indoor rain, twice.  It is not a bad idea to take basic precautions like lifting everything a few inches off the floor.  

Against overhead water, I saw one fellow put a slanted corrugated plastic 'roof' above his scope.  When a noachian flood hit the floors above him his stuff was spared.  Even if building codes do not force you to live with a sprinkler of Damocles, that may not be a terrible idea in an older building or a lab space located below street level.  

cheers,


TF

Timothy Feinstein, PhD
Postdoctoral Fellow
Laboratory for GPCR Biology
Dept. of Pharmacology & Chemical Biology
University of Pittsburgh, School of Medicine
BST W1301, 200 Lothrop St.
Pittsburgh, PA  15261

On Oct 26, 2011, at 8:55 AM, Cammer, Michael wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> *****
>
> Yes.
>
> But first a diversion.  Worse than the sprinkler systems are the Koldwave air conditioning units that building engineers squeeze into the plenum in the tiny microscope rooms.  These are guaranteed to collect condensation that will drip, if not stream, down.  I have repeatedly been involved with renovations where we specified cooling unit locations in the plans only to be ignored by the builders.
>
> We are in NYC and we have sprinklers installed directly over everything.  (When I was at Einstein, also in NYC, we didn't have sprinklers in the lab; I wonder whether this was a grandfather clause or some other reason.)  I bet we could not get an exception in Manhattan.  Short of building a tent over the equipment (which may or may not violate the fire code in other ways), we have to trust the plumbing.
>
> A quick Google of the NYC fire code suggests that there is a loophole of renovating to have one hour firestop walls as per "all unsprinklered floor areas shall be segregated by one-hour fire separations into spaces or compartments not to exceed seventy-five hundred square feet."  As for relying on the plumbing, the fire code does specify, "Where connected to a standpipe riser, provision shall be made to prevent excessive pressure on the sprinkler heads."  Also, there is a provision for high pressure testing when installed.  I assume this is to check for flaws in the plumbing and the sprinkler itself.  Sprinklers are not supposed to release water unless the temperature gets hot enough to melt the valve.  
>
> But having said all of this, I do know of a lab in the Bronx where the sprinklers failed at RT and there was a flood and it shut down the research for a while.  
>
> After this hot air, I hope not enough to set off your sprinkler systems, good luck.  If it's an in-house institutional or insurance requirement rather than local code, they may be willing to grant an exemption with the installation of other safety monitors, as already specified on the listserv, when they see the price of the equipment.
>
> ________________________________________________________
> Michael Cammer, Assistant Research Scientist
> Skirball Institute of Biomolecular Medicine
> Lab: [phone]  Cell: [phone]
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Naomi Book
> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 4:47 AM
> Subject: sprinkler systems in microscope room
>
> Our institute has decided to install sprinkler system in the institute for
> safety reasons, the engineer that planed the system has put at least one
> sprinkler right above every confocal/microscope we have in our unit. Can
> anyone tell me please if you have sprinklers in your microscopes room? Is
> there a way to avoid this ??
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Naomi Book
>
>
> Naomi Melamed-Book, Ph.D
> Bio-Imaging Unit
> The Alexander Silberman Institute of Life Science
> Edmaond Safra Campus (G Ram)
> The Hebrew University
> Jerusalem 91904, Israel
> phone: [phone]
> Fax:[phone]
> [hidden email]
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is proprietary, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender by return email and delete the original message. Please note, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The organization accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email.
> =================================

[Oshel, Philip Eugene]

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Naomi,

We do, and it's very difficult to get people to understand how bad an
idea it is.
What I've done is tell the people who are specifying sprinklers that
they have to install the kind used in computer server rooms. Dry
powder extinguishers and the like.
You likely won't be able to keep the sprinklers out of the room, but
you can at least get the dry kind.
Note! If the sprinklers are going into rooms with electron
microscopes, talk to the EM company tech people to make sure the
sprinkler system won't cause problems with electromagnetic fields. If
they will, that's an excellent argument to at least move the pipes.
"Move the pipe or you'll turn the EM into a very expensive
paperweight - and you're paying for it."
And! For safety reasons, "right above the microscope" is a terrible
idea. Remind him that these instruments use electricity, some of them
draw lots of amps, some use 220V, and putting a wet sprinkler over
the microscope is creating a serious electrocution hazard.
That may work when nothing else will.

Phil

>*****
>To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
>http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
>*****
>
>Our institute has decided to install sprinkler system in the institute for
>safety reasons, the engineer that planed the system has put at least one
>sprinkler right above every confocal/microscope we have in our unit. Can
>anyone tell me please if you have sprinklers in your microscopes room? Is
>there a way to avoid this ??
>
>Many thanks,
>
>Naomi Book
>
>
>Naomi Melamed-Book, Ph.D
>Bio-Imaging Unit
>The Alexander Silberman Institute of Life Science
>Edmaond Safra Campus (G Ram)
>The Hebrew University
>Jerusalem 91904, Israel
>phone: [phone]
>Fax:[phone]
>[hidden email]

--
Philip Oshel
Microscopy Facility Supervisor
Biology Department
024C Brooks Hall
Central Michigan University
Mt. Pleasant, MI 48859
[phone]

[mcammer]

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It's not the best pic but here's an example tent built over a Zeiss 510 to protect against overhead water from a  Koldwave.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mcammer/1620033032/
-Michael C.

-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tim Feinstein
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 9:21 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: sprinkler systems in microscope room

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Sprinklers are not the only concern - overhead flooding has obliged me to disassemble and move a confocal under a tarp amidst indoor rain, twice.  It is not a bad idea to take basic precautions like lifting everything a few inches off the floor.  

Against overhead water, I saw one fellow put a slanted corrugated plastic 'roof' above his scope.  When a noachian flood hit the floors above him his stuff was spared.  Even if building codes do not force you to live with a sprinkler of Damocles, that may not be a terrible idea in an older building or a lab space located below street level.  

cheers,


TF

Timothy Feinstein, PhD
Postdoctoral Fellow
Laboratory for GPCR Biology
Dept. of Pharmacology & Chemical Biology
University of Pittsburgh, School of Medicine
BST W1301, 200 Lothrop St.
Pittsburgh, PA  15261

On Oct 26, 2011, at 8:55 AM, Cammer, Michael wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> *****
>
> Yes.
>
> But first a diversion.  Worse than the sprinkler systems are the Koldwave air conditioning units that building engineers squeeze into the plenum in the tiny microscope rooms.  These are guaranteed to collect condensation that will drip, if not stream, down.  I have repeatedly been involved with renovations where we specified cooling unit locations in the plans only to be ignored by the builders.
>
> We are in NYC and we have sprinklers installed directly over everything.  (When I was at Einstein, also in NYC, we didn't have sprinklers in the lab; I wonder whether this was a grandfather clause or some other reason.)  I bet we could not get an exception in Manhattan.  Short of building a tent over the equipment (which may or may not violate the fire code in other ways), we have to trust the plumbing.
>
> A quick Google of the NYC fire code suggests that there is a loophole of renovating to have one hour firestop walls as per "all unsprinklered floor areas shall be segregated by one-hour fire separations into spaces or compartments not to exceed seventy-five hundred square feet."  As for relying on the plumbing, the fire code does specify, "Where connected to a standpipe riser, provision shall be made to prevent excessive pressure on the sprinkler heads."  Also, there is a provision for high pressure testing when installed.  I assume this is to check for flaws in the plumbing and the sprinkler itself.  Sprinklers are not supposed to release water unless the temperature gets hot enough to melt the valve.  
>
> But having said all of this, I do know of a lab in the Bronx where the sprinklers failed at RT and there was a flood and it shut down the research for a while.  
>
> After this hot air, I hope not enough to set off your sprinkler systems, good luck.  If it's an in-house institutional or insurance requirement rather than local code, they may be willing to grant an exemption with the installation of other safety monitors, as already specified on the listserv, when they see the price of the equipment.
>
> ________________________________________________________
> Michael Cammer, Assistant Research Scientist
> Skirball Institute of Biomolecular Medicine
> Lab: [phone]  Cell: [phone]
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Naomi Book
> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 4:47 AM
> Subject: sprinkler systems in microscope room
>
> Our institute has decided to install sprinkler system in the institute for
> safety reasons, the engineer that planed the system has put at least one
> sprinkler right above every confocal/microscope we have in our unit. Can
> anyone tell me please if you have sprinklers in your microscopes room? Is
> there a way to avoid this ??
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Naomi Book
>
>
> Naomi Melamed-Book, Ph.D
> Bio-Imaging Unit
> The Alexander Silberman Institute of Life Science
> Edmaond Safra Campus (G Ram)
> The Hebrew University
> Jerusalem 91904, Israel
> phone: [phone]
> Fax:[phone]
> [hidden email]
>
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[mahogny]

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>
> Naomi,
>
> We do, and it's very difficult to get people to understand how bad an idea
> it is.
> What I've done is tell the people who are specifying sprinklers that they
> have to install the kind used in computer server rooms. Dry powder
> extinguishers and the like.
>

never ever ever let a dry powder extinguisher near electronics! it will
ruin it totally. but you are on the right track; look into this instead:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaseous_fire_suppression

/Johan

--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Johan Henriksson
PhD student, Karolinska Institutet
http://mahogny.areta.org  http://www.endrov.net

[Oshel, Philip Eugene]

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Halon and similar gaseous extinguisher systems are no longer allowed
where I am.
There are dry powder extinguisher systems specifically designed for
computer server rooms, and these are what need to be specified.

Phil

>>
>>  Naomi,
>>
>>  We do, and it's very difficult to get people to understand how bad an idea
>>  it is.
>>  What I've done is tell the people who are specifying sprinklers that they
>>  have to install the kind used in computer server rooms. Dry powder
>>  extinguishers and the like.
>>
>
>never ever ever let a dry powder extinguisher near electronics! it will
>ruin it totally. but you are on the right track; look into this instead:
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaseous_fire_suppression
>
>/Johan
>
>--
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>Johan Henriksson
>PhD student, Karolinska Institutet
>http://mahogny.areta.org  http://www.endrov.net

--
Philip Oshel
Microscopy Facility Supervisor
Biology Department
024C Brooks Hall
Central Michigan University
Mt. Pleasant, MI 48859
[phone]

[Theresa Swayne]

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I agree that guarding against floods from above is a good idea,  
whether or not you have sprinklers. I've never had a sprinkler system  
go off by accident, but we have had floods from dishwashers and leaky  
pipes on higher floors.

Our university Facilities department made plexiglas shields, which are  
suspended from the ceiling above the most expensive equipment. The  
shields have side walls a few inches high and a drain at one corner,  
with a drain tube running to the lab sink.

These shields have the desirable side effect of diverting the air  
currents from overhead air conditioner vents, but if they're too deep  
they can trap a significant amount of cold air and reduce cooling  
efficiency.

Theresa

On Oct 26, 2011, at 9:20 AM, Tim Feinstein wrote:

> Sprinklers are not the only concern - overhead flooding has obliged  
> me to disassemble and move a confocal under a tarp amidst indoor  
> rain, twice.  It is not a bad idea to take basic precautions like  
> lifting everything a few inches off the floor.
>
> Against overhead water, I saw one fellow put a slanted corrugated  
> plastic 'roof' above his scope.

------------------------------------
Theresa C. Swayne, Ph.D.
Manager, Confocal and Specialized Microscopy Shared Resource
Herbert Irving Comprehensive Cancer Center, Columbia University
1130 Saint Nicholas Ave, 222A
New York, NY 10032

212-851-4613

[hidden email]
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