RE interfacing an existing confocal with an x-y-z stage

[Allan Kachelmeier]

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Hi,

We're still maintaining a BioRad 1024. We're looking to see what it might
involved to add an x-y (or x-y-z) stage to it. The hangup would be
interfacing with the LaserSharp NT-based software. Is this a lost cause, or
is there new life to be made of old microscopes? Ideas? Thanks.

Allan Kachelmeier
Manager, confocal microscopy core
Oregon Hearing Research Center
OHSU

[Craig Brideau]

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If you can't find any examples from other groups then you will have to come
up with your own interface.  If you can figure out what the BioRad outputs
as a control signal then you can try to find a stage that accepts that
input directly.  Given that there are only so many ways to drive a stage
you might be able to find something that is still compatible from a third
party.  Your other option is to build an interface box that converts the
Biorad stage control signals into whatever your new stage needs.  Of course
this all assumes the Biorad software has the outputs you need in the first
place.

Craig


On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Allan Kachelmeier <[hidden email]>wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> *****
>
> Hi,
>
> We're still maintaining a BioRad 1024. We're looking to see what it might
> involved to add an x-y (or x-y-z) stage to it. The hangup would be
> interfacing with the LaserSharp NT-based software. Is this a lost cause, or
> is there new life to be made of old microscopes? Ideas? Thanks.
>
> Allan Kachelmeier
> Manager, confocal microscopy core
> Oregon Hearing Research Center
> OHSU
>

[Guy Cox-2]

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I'd suggest you try to find out what stage Bio-Rad used (probably Prior) and ask the manufacturers.  Even when Bio-Rad were in business we had a lot of problems interfacing a non-standard xyz stage to one.  Using whatever stage Bio-Rad supplied should be much easier.

                                      Guy

Optical Imaging Techniques in Cell Biology
by Guy Cox    CRC Press / Taylor & Francis
     http://www.guycox.com/optical.htm
______________________________________________
Associate Professor Guy Cox, MA, DPhil(Oxon)
Australian Centre for Microscopy & Microanalysis,
Madsen Building F09, University of Sydney, NSW 2006

Phone [phone]     Fax [phone]
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-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Allan Kachelmeier
Sent: Thursday, 1 December 2011 7:37 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: RE interfacing an existing confocal with an x-y-z stage

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Hi,

We're still maintaining a BioRad 1024. We're looking to see what it might
involved to add an x-y (or x-y-z) stage to it. The hangup would be
interfacing with the LaserSharp NT-based software. Is this a lost cause, or
is there new life to be made of old microscopes? Ideas? Thanks.

Allan Kachelmeier
Manager, confocal microscopy core
Oregon Hearing Research Center
OHSU

[Sathya]

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Has any one tried the LEP stages (LudL Electronic Products Ltd.) (No commercial interest) http://www.ludl.com/Home.aspx. We use it regularly with our Stereology system and can cover X, Y and Z directions precisely.

Sathya Srinivasan
Research Associate
Experimental Imaging Center
University of Calgary
Calgary, Alberta T3L 3C5
Canada

Phone: [phone]
e-mail: [hidden email]

> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 13:53:39 -0700
> From: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: RE interfacing an existing confocal with an x-y-z stage
> To: [hidden email]
>
> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> *****
>
> If you can't find any examples from other groups then you will have to come
> up with your own interface. If you can figure out what the BioRad outputs
> as a control signal then you can try to find a stage that accepts that
> input directly. Given that there are only so many ways to drive a stage
> you might be able to find something that is still compatible from a third
> party. Your other option is to build an interface box that converts the
> Biorad stage control signals into whatever your new stage needs. Of course
> this all assumes the Biorad software has the outputs you need in the first
> place.
>
> Craig
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Allan Kachelmeier <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
> > *****
> > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> > http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> > *****
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > We're still maintaining a BioRad 1024. We're looking to see what it might
> > involved to add an x-y (or x-y-z) stage to it. The hangup would be
> > interfacing with the LaserSharp NT-based software. Is this a lost cause, or
> > is there new life to be made of old microscopes? Ideas? Thanks.
> >
> > Allan Kachelmeier
> > Manager, confocal microscopy core
> > Oregon Hearing Research Center
> > OHSU
> >    

[Keith Morris]

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We did a similar thing [twice] many years ago where we kept an old
microscope with a PC controlled motorised XY stage and attached that to
another new acquisition system. However we kept the motorised stage hardware
independent of the new systems software, so although the stage could be set
up semi-automatically for a full raster scan via a footswitch, once the
stage had moved to it's new position you manually acquired the image from
each field with the new, independent, acquisition PC. We also had manual
movement via the XY joystick control and we could map points of interest on
a slide as the stage was self zeroing on startup [and the co-ordinates could
be converted to match those of a universal England Finder graticule slide].
We controlled the stage via it's old PC where we could get into the stage
control software and set up stage. The acquisition software for the camera
and image analysis was controlled by the new microscope PC and it didn't
interact at all with the XY stage software. Programming a break-out box to
trigger things like this can be a pain in the ass - particularly if there's
no technical support from Bio-Rad or the old stage supplier. It's even worse
if you try and get something running like Visual Basic and a dedicated PCI
card to do it, so we simply avoided it. It was very quick to accurately
raster scan an entire section semi-automatically this way, and much easier
than using a manual stage, plus as each field was captured manually it was
always in focus. I did write a little program to calculate the start/stop
location, XY step distance and the number of fields required so that
inputting the first and last field co-ordinates into the program gave the
required numbers to input into the stage control software [which was quite
basic]. If buying a motorised stage setup new [or possibly to help locate a
second hand option], I'd try companies like Prior who regularly fit their
stages to other peoples microscopes and they may remember the expensive
solution they used to offer MRC-1024 users. Plus Zeiss [Microscience] still
vaguely supports Bio-Rads and there may be a few old Bio-Rads service
engineers with long memories about the halls of Zeiss, if you can locate
them.

Regards

Keith

**After writing this I found the following on-line in the confocal archives
which seems relevant [and fits in with my comments]:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0012&L=CONFOCALMICROSCOPY&P=4687

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr Keith J. Morris,
Molecular Cytogenetics and Microscopy Core,
Laboratory 00/069 and 00/07
The Wellcome Trust Centre for Human Genetics,
Roosevelt Drive,
Oxford  OX3 7BN,
United Kingdom.

Telephone:  [phone]
Email:  [hidden email]
Web-pages: http://www.well.ox.ac.uk/molecular-cytogenetics-and-microscopy




----------------------------
** Subject: Re: confocal plus motorized stage
From: Ian Gibbins <[hidden email]>
Reply-To: Confocal Microscopy List <[hidden email]>
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 08:07:58 +1030
Content-Type: text/plain

I support Paul's report here - we tried to get BioRad to support an X-Y
stage - they quoted us a third party system that was very expensive and
that couldn't be controlled by LaserSharp anyway (despite the line that
comes up during startup suggesting the option of stage control...). We
ended up getting a Prior system that can be programmed via a controller
box / joystick independent of the computer altogether - it is really
great (as are the comparable Ludl/LEP systems), but to have proper
integrated X-Y-Z control would be a real dream come true...

IAN


"J.Paul Robinson" wrote:

>
> On 4 Dec 2000, at 10:33, Kathryn Spencer wrote:
>
> Hello All!
>         Has anyone tried to integrate a Bio-Rad 1024 time-series with
> a motorized
> stage? Do they need to be totally separate systems? Does anyone
> have any recommendations for stages?In response to this question
> on X-Y stage control...
> -------------------
>
> We have tried a number of things. We purchased a 1024 in 1994
> and part of the spec was that it had a x-y-z controlable stage. The
> first one installed did not fitt correctly within the confines of the UV
> protective case that was on this instrument. They replaced this
> with a new one. Unfortunately, BioRad only programmed Comos to
> use the X-Y stage. They kept telling us that the timecourse
> software would use it and we waited and waited.....
>
> BioRad never did make the x-y automated stage operate under any
> of their confocal packages. This was a great disappointment.
> Basically I don't think anyone at Biorad understood how important
> accurate X-Y control was. All we can do is use a joystick which is
> essentially only useful for moving the stage around. We cannot
> ever accurately track where is or has been.
>
> I assume that they have never implemented X-Y-Z stage control in
> any Biorad systems. If they had, I am sure they would have made
> ours work as it was, afterall in our contract.....
>
> Paul Robinson
> Purdue University
>
> On 4 Dec 2000, at 10:33, Kathryn Spencer wrote:
>
> Hello All!
>         Has anyone tried to integrate a Bio-Rad 1024 time-series with a

motorized

> stage? Do they need to be totally separate systems? Does anyone have any
> recommendations for stages?
>         Thanks!
>         Kathy Spencer
>
> Kathy Spencer
> The Scripps Research Institute
> 10550 N. Torrey Pines Road
> IMM 24
> La Jolla, CA 92037
> [phone]
> [hidden email]
> J.Paul Robinson, PhD             PH:(765)4940757
> Professor of Immunopharmacology
> Professor of Biomedical Engineering
> Purdue University          FAX:[phone]
> EMAIL:[hidden email]
> WEB: http://www.cyto.purdue.edu

--
Professor Ian Gibbins
Anatomy & Histology
Flinders University of South Australia
GPO Box 2100, Adelaide, SA 5001
Australia

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