Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?

[Jeremy Adler-4]

Last week I posed a simple question about a conference that was being promoted using this list.

'Alberto, in case my reading of unfamiliar names is incorrect,  could you give us the fraction of the speakers that are male.'

There has been no response - the question seems to come down to whether men make up  100% or just 96% of the speakers. Implicit  in the question is how is this possible.

The massive under representation women as speakers is not trivial, being invited to speak has considerable career advantages, its looks good on a CV, it provides good networking opportunities beyond those available to conference participants, in addition speakers costs are often met and the unstated deal is that the organizers then expect/hope that the chosen speakers will reciprocate and invite them to their conferences - a loop that further works to exclude women. That speakers often become decision makers on grant applications and publications makes this cosy arrangement even more pernicious.

So Alberto please answer a very simple but important  question.

[Raghavendra Palanakar]

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
*****

Hi Jeremy, 

You really pinned it. Thank you for your courage and bring this into light.

It's about time to voice the concerns publicly.

With best regards,
Raghav



 University of Greifswald
ZIK HIKE
Centre for Innovation Competence - Humoral Immune Reactions in Cardiovascular Diseases
Nanostructure Group
Fleischmannstraße 42-44
17489 Greifswald
Germany
 
Tel.: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
[hidden email]
www.hike-autoimmunity.de
 
  Original Message  
From: Jeremy Adler
Sent: Thursday, 8 October 2015 11:25
To: [hidden email]
Reply To: Confocal Microscopy List
Subject: Re: [CONFOCALMICROSCOPY] Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?

Last week I posed a simple question about a conference that was being promoted using this list.

'Alberto, in case my reading of unfamiliar names is incorrect, could you give us the fraction of the speakers that are male.'

There has been no response - the question seems to come down to whether men make up 100% or just 96% of the speakers. Implicit in the question is how is this possible.

The massive under representation women as speakers is not trivial, being invited to speak has considerable career advantages, its looks good on a CV, it provides good networking opportunities beyond those available to conference participants, in addition speakers costs are often met and the unstated deal is that the organizers then expect/hope that the chosen speakers will reciprocate and invite them to their conferences - a loop that further works to exclude women. That speakers often become decision makers on grant applications and publications makes this cosy arrangement even more pernicious.

So Alberto please answer a very simple but important question.

[Sylvie Le Guyader]

There is no 'Like' button on the confocal server and no way to insert an image in a mail but everyone knows what they look like anyway so I give Jeremy a huge ‘Like’.



Thank you for your efforts, Jeremy! The Swedish part of me really appreciates and the French part of me loves it! :)



Med vänlig hälsning / Best regards



Sylvie



@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Sylvie Le Guyader, PhD

Live Cell Imaging Unit Manager

Karolinska Institutet- Bionut Dpt

Hälsovägen 7,

Novum, G lift, floor 6

14157 Huddinge

Sweden

mobile: [phone]

office: [phone]

LCI website





-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jeremy Adler
Sent: den 8 oktober 2015 11:20
To: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?



Last week I posed a simple question about a conference that was being promoted using this list.



'Alberto, in case my reading of unfamiliar names is incorrect,  could you give us the fraction of the speakers that are male.'



There has been no response - the question seems to come down to whether men make up  100% or just 96% of the speakers. Implicit  in the question is how is this possible.



The massive under representation women as speakers is not trivial, being invited to speak has considerable career advantages, its looks good on a CV, it provides good networking opportunities beyond those available to conference participants, in addition speakers costs are often met and the unstated deal is that the organizers then expect/hope that the chosen speakers will reciprocate and invite them to their conferences - a loop that further works to exclude women. That speakers often become decision makers on grant applications and publications makes this cosy arrangement even more pernicious.



So Alberto please answer a very simple but important  question.

[Julia Edgar]

Yes, much appreciated, Jeremy.
Thank you
Julia

-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sylvie Le Guyader
Sent: 08 October 2015 13:34
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?

There is no 'Like' button on the confocal server and no way to insert an image in a mail but everyone knows what they look like anyway so I give Jeremy a huge ‘Like’.



Thank you for your efforts, Jeremy! The Swedish part of me really appreciates and the French part of me loves it! :)



Med vänlig hälsning / Best regards



Sylvie



@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Sylvie Le Guyader, PhD

Live Cell Imaging Unit Manager

Karolinska Institutet- Bionut Dpt

Hälsovägen 7,

Novum, G lift, floor 6

14157 Huddinge

Sweden

mobile: [phone]

office: [phone]

LCI website





-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jeremy Adler
Sent: den 8 oktober 2015 11:20
To: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?



Last week I posed a simple question about a conference that was being promoted using this list.



'Alberto, in case my reading of unfamiliar names is incorrect,  could you give us the fraction of the speakers that are male.'



There has been no response - the question seems to come down to whether men make up  100% or just 96% of the speakers. Implicit  in the question is how is this possible.



The massive under representation women as speakers is not trivial, being invited to speak has considerable career advantages, its looks good on a CV, it provides good networking opportunities beyond those available to conference participants, in addition speakers costs are often met and the unstated deal is that the organizers then expect/hope that the chosen speakers will reciprocate and invite them to their conferences - a loop that further works to exclude women. That speakers often become decision makers on grant applications and publications makes this cosy arrangement even more pernicious.



So Alberto please answer a very simple but important  question.

[Alberto Diaspro]

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
*****

Dear
Thank you for your observations. Please, let me tell you that: 1) Eirini is a woman; 2) I personally invited women that, for different reasons, declined; 3) I invited women - as I use to do - not because they are women - simply because they do excellent research in AND (logical) with the fact that I know the research they do; 4) I did not reply because i was on travelling with limited Internet access.
I am Sorry for the xtremely low percentage, hopefully you will like Science.

Alby iPad

> Il giorno 08 ott 2015, alle ore 14:41, Julia Edgar <[hidden email]> ha scritto:
>
> Yes, much appreciated, Jeremy.
> Thank you
> Julia
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sylvie Le Guyader
> Sent: 08 October 2015 13:34
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?
>
> There is no 'Like' button on the confocal server and no way to insert an image in a mail but everyone knows what they look like anyway so I give Jeremy a huge ‘Like’.
>
>
>
> Thank you for your efforts, Jeremy! The Swedish part of me really appreciates and the French part of me loves it! :)
>
>
>
> Med vänlig hälsning / Best regards
>
>
>
> Sylvie
>
>
>
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
>
> Sylvie Le Guyader, PhD
>
> Live Cell Imaging Unit Manager
>
> Karolinska Institutet- Bionut Dpt
>
> Hälsovägen 7,
>
> Novum, G lift, floor 6
>
> 14157 Huddinge
>
> Sweden
>
> mobile: [phone]
>
> office: [phone]
>
> LCI website
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jeremy Adler
> Sent: den 8 oktober 2015 11:20
> To: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?
>
>
>
> Last week I posed a simple question about a conference that was being promoted using this list.
>
>
>
> 'Alberto, in case my reading of unfamiliar names is incorrect,  could you give us the fraction of the speakers that are male.'
>
>
>
> There has been no response - the question seems to come down to whether men make up  100% or just 96% of the speakers. Implicit  in the question is how is this possible.
>
>
>
> The massive under representation women as speakers is not trivial, being invited to speak has considerable career advantages, its looks good on a CV, it provides good networking opportunities beyond those available to conference participants, in addition speakers costs are often met and the unstated deal is that the organizers then expect/hope that the chosen speakers will reciprocate and invite them to their conferences - a loop that further works to exclude women. That speakers often become decision makers on grant applications and publications makes this cosy arrangement even more pernicious.
>
>
>
> So Alberto please answer a very simple but important  question.
>
>

[rjpalmer]

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
*****

So now we are finsihed with the hectoring I hope.  I¹m glad this forum is
not Facebook and there is no ³like² button - I have other things to do
besides watch people agree with the obvious.  Sometimes saying a little is
saying a lot.

Jeremy - I fully support your concept (really).  It seems you want to make
this a public crusade.  We all just reveived notice of the annual FOM
meeting - a much larger event.  Perhaps you could run (or demand) the
numbers on that one just for the sake of completeness.  The current
speaker list (many speakers from abstracts, and thus sent by their home
institutions) is not yet available but plenty of information exists on the
previous meetings.  Of course, the organizing committee is listed for the
current meeting.  Given the vitriol with this last episode, the organizers
may want to premptively address this issue publically right now.

Robert J. Palmer Jr., PhD
National Institute of Dental and Craniofacial Research
National Institutes of Health
Building 30, Room 207
Bethesda MD 20892
301-594-0025




On 10/8/15, 8:58 AM, "Alberto Diaspro" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>*****
>To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
>http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
>Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
>*****
>
>Dear
>Thank you for your observations. Please, let me tell you that: 1) Eirini
>is a woman; 2) I personally invited women that, for different reasons,
>declined; 3) I invited women - as I use to do - not because they are
>women - simply because they do excellent research in AND (logical) with
>the fact that I know the research they do; 4) I did not reply because i
>was on travelling with limited Internet access.
>I am Sorry for the xtremely low percentage, hopefully you will like
>Science.
>
>Alby iPad
>
>> Il giorno 08 ott 2015, alle ore 14:41, Julia Edgar
>><[hidden email]> ha scritto:
>>
>> Yes, much appreciated, Jeremy.
>> Thank you
>> Julia
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Confocal Microscopy List
>>[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sylvie Le Guyader
>> Sent: 08 October 2015 13:34
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?
>>
>> There is no 'Like' button on the confocal server and no way to insert
>>an image in a mail but everyone knows what they look like anyway so I
>>give Jeremy a huge ŒLike¹.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you for your efforts, Jeremy! The Swedish part of me really
>>appreciates and the French part of me loves it! :)
>>
>>
>>
>> Med vänlig hälsning / Best regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Sylvie
>>
>>
>>
>> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
>>
>> Sylvie Le Guyader, PhD
>>
>> Live Cell Imaging Unit Manager
>>
>> Karolinska Institutet- Bionut Dpt
>>
>> Hälsovägen 7,
>>
>> Novum, G lift, floor 6
>>
>> 14157 Huddinge
>>
>> Sweden
>>
>> mobile: [phone]
>>
>> office: [phone]
>>
>> LCI website
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Confocal Microscopy List
>>[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jeremy Adler
>> Sent: den 8 oktober 2015 11:20
>> To:
>>[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Last week I posed a simple question about a conference that was being
>>promoted using this list.
>>
>>
>>
>> 'Alberto, in case my reading of unfamiliar names is incorrect,  could
>>you give us the fraction of the speakers that are male.'
>>
>>
>>
>> There has been no response - the question seems to come down to whether
>>men make up  100% or just 96% of the speakers. Implicit  in the question
>>is how is this possible.
>>
>>
>>
>> The massive under representation women as speakers is not trivial,
>>being invited to speak has considerable career advantages, its looks
>>good on a CV, it provides good networking opportunities beyond those
>>available to conference participants, in addition speakers costs are
>>often met and the unstated deal is that the organizers then expect/hope
>>that the chosen speakers will reciprocate and invite them to their
>>conferences - a loop that further works to exclude women. That speakers
>>often become decision makers on grant applications and publications
>>makes this cosy arrangement even more pernicious.
>>
>>
>>
>> So Alberto please answer a very simple but important  question.
>>
>>

[Phillips, Thomas E.]

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
*****

"agree with the obvious" - did you mean women should be invited to speak at conferences or that this is yet another example of failing to do so?

Women were invited - as a scientist, I have found data can be useful. What were the number of each gender invited and what was the acceptance/decline rate?

Let's hope a listserver meant to discuss important issues to the field can be used for that. But if the list moderator feels differently, it would be up to him or her to clarify this policy. Are you on the oversight board for the listserver?

If you want to disprove the point made by the earlier posting, maybe you want to supply the data yourself. But if FOM is a better gender representation, it just goes to prove it is possible and therefore other conferences should be equally successful if they are proactive.





Thomas E. Phillips, Ph.D
Professor of Biological Sciences
Director, Molecular Cytology Core
2 Tucker Hall
University of Missouri
Columbia, MO 65211-7400
573-882-4712 (office)
573-882-0123 (fax)
[hidden email]

http://www.biology.missouri.edu/faculty/phillips.html
http://www.biotech.missouri.edu/mcc/

-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Palmer, Robert J (NIH/NIDCR) [E]
Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2015 8:14 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
*****

So now we are finsihed with the hectoring I hope.  I¹m glad this forum is not Facebook and there is no ³like² button - I have other things to do besides watch people agree with the obvious.  Sometimes saying a little is saying a lot.

Jeremy - I fully support your concept (really).  It seems you want to make this a public crusade.  We all just reveived notice of the annual FOM meeting - a much larger event.  Perhaps you could run (or demand) the numbers on that one just for the sake of completeness.  The current speaker list (many speakers from abstracts, and thus sent by their home
institutions) is not yet available but plenty of information exists on the previous meetings.  Of course, the organizing committee is listed for the current meeting.  Given the vitriol with this last episode, the organizers may want to premptively address this issue publically right now.

Robert J. Palmer Jr., PhD
National Institute of Dental and Craniofacial Research National Institutes of Health Building 30, Room 207 Bethesda MD 20892
301-594-0025




On 10/8/15, 8:58 AM, "Alberto Diaspro" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>*****
>To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
>http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
>Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
>*****
>
>Dear
>Thank you for your observations. Please, let me tell you that: 1)
>Eirini is a woman; 2) I personally invited women that, for different
>reasons, declined; 3) I invited women - as I use to do - not because
>they are women - simply because they do excellent research in AND
>(logical) with the fact that I know the research they do; 4) I did not
>reply because i was on travelling with limited Internet access.
>I am Sorry for the xtremely low percentage, hopefully you will like
>Science.
>
>Alby iPad
>
>> Il giorno 08 ott 2015, alle ore 14:41, Julia Edgar
>><[hidden email]> ha scritto:
>>
>> Yes, much appreciated, Jeremy.
>> Thank you
>> Julia
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Confocal Microscopy List
>>[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sylvie Le
>>Guyader
>> Sent: 08 October 2015 13:34
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?
>>
>> There is no 'Like' button on the confocal server and no way to insert
>>an image in a mail but everyone knows what they look like anyway so I
>>give Jeremy a huge ŒLike¹.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you for your efforts, Jeremy! The Swedish part of me really
>>appreciates and the French part of me loves it! :)
>>
>>
>>
>> Med vänlig hälsning / Best regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Sylvie
>>
>>
>>
>> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
>>
>> Sylvie Le Guyader, PhD
>>
>> Live Cell Imaging Unit Manager
>>
>> Karolinska Institutet- Bionut Dpt
>>
>> Hälsovägen 7,
>>
>> Novum, G lift, floor 6
>>
>> 14157 Huddinge
>>
>> Sweden
>>
>> mobile: [phone]
>>
>> office: [phone]
>>
>> LCI website
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Confocal Microscopy List
>>[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jeremy Adler
>> Sent: den 8 oktober 2015 11:20
>> To:
>>[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]
>>DU>
>> Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Last week I posed a simple question about a conference that was being
>>promoted using this list.
>>
>>
>>
>> 'Alberto, in case my reading of unfamiliar names is incorrect,  could
>>you give us the fraction of the speakers that are male.'
>>
>>
>>
>> There has been no response - the question seems to come down to
>>whether men make up  100% or just 96% of the speakers. Implicit  in
>>the question is how is this possible.
>>
>>
>>
>> The massive under representation women as speakers is not trivial,
>>being invited to speak has considerable career advantages, its looks
>>good on a CV, it provides good networking opportunities beyond those
>>available to conference participants, in addition speakers costs are
>>often met and the unstated deal is that the organizers then
>>expect/hope that the chosen speakers will reciprocate and invite them
>>to their conferences - a loop that further works to exclude women.
>>That speakers often become decision makers on grant applications and
>>publications makes this cosy arrangement even more pernicious.
>>
>>
>>
>> So Alberto please answer a very simple but important  question.
>>
>>

[Sylvie Le Guyader]

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
*****

Dear Thomas

You get my Like too ;)

Med vänlig hälsning / Best regards
 
Sylvie
 
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Sylvie Le Guyader, PhD
Live Cell Imaging Unit Manager
Karolinska Institutet- Bionut Dpt
Hälsovägen 7,
Novum, G lift, floor 6
14157 Huddinge
Sweden
mobile: [phone]
office: [phone]
LCI website


-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Phillips, Thomas E.
Sent: den 8 oktober 2015 16:29
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
*****

"agree with the obvious" - did you mean women should be invited to speak at conferences or that this is yet another example of failing to do so?

Women were invited - as a scientist, I have found data can be useful. What were the number of each gender invited and what was the acceptance/decline rate?

Let's hope a listserver meant to discuss important issues to the field can be used for that. But if the list moderator feels differently, it would be up to him or her to clarify this policy. Are you on the oversight board for the listserver?

If you want to disprove the point made by the earlier posting, maybe you want to supply the data yourself. But if FOM is a better gender representation, it just goes to prove it is possible and therefore other conferences should be equally successful if they are proactive.





Thomas E. Phillips, Ph.D
Professor of Biological Sciences
Director, Molecular Cytology Core
2 Tucker Hall
University of Missouri
Columbia, MO 65211-7400
573-882-4712 (office)
573-882-0123 (fax)
[hidden email]

http://www.biology.missouri.edu/faculty/phillips.html
http://www.biotech.missouri.edu/mcc/

-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Palmer, Robert J (NIH/NIDCR) [E]
Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2015 8:14 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
*****

So now we are finsihed with the hectoring I hope.  I¹m glad this forum is not Facebook and there is no ³like² button - I have other things to do besides watch people agree with the obvious.  Sometimes saying a little is saying a lot.

Jeremy - I fully support your concept (really).  It seems you want to make this a public crusade.  We all just reveived notice of the annual FOM meeting - a much larger event.  Perhaps you could run (or demand) the numbers on that one just for the sake of completeness.  The current speaker list (many speakers from abstracts, and thus sent by their home
institutions) is not yet available but plenty of information exists on the previous meetings.  Of course, the organizing committee is listed for the current meeting.  Given the vitriol with this last episode, the organizers may want to premptively address this issue publically right now.

Robert J. Palmer Jr., PhD
National Institute of Dental and Craniofacial Research National Institutes of Health Building 30, Room 207 Bethesda MD 20892
301-594-0025




On 10/8/15, 8:58 AM, "Alberto Diaspro" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>*****
>To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
>http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
>Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
>*****
>
>Dear
>Thank you for your observations. Please, let me tell you that: 1)
>Eirini is a woman; 2) I personally invited women that, for different
>reasons, declined; 3) I invited women - as I use to do - not because
>they are women - simply because they do excellent research in AND
>(logical) with the fact that I know the research they do; 4) I did not
>reply because i was on travelling with limited Internet access.
>I am Sorry for the xtremely low percentage, hopefully you will like
>Science.
>
>Alby iPad
>
>> Il giorno 08 ott 2015, alle ore 14:41, Julia Edgar
>><[hidden email]> ha scritto:
>>
>> Yes, much appreciated, Jeremy.
>> Thank you
>> Julia
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Confocal Microscopy List
>>[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sylvie Le
>>Guyader
>> Sent: 08 October 2015 13:34
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?
>>
>> There is no 'Like' button on the confocal server and no way to insert
>>an image in a mail but everyone knows what they look like anyway so I
>>give Jeremy a huge ŒLike¹.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you for your efforts, Jeremy! The Swedish part of me really
>>appreciates and the French part of me loves it! :)
>>
>>
>>
>> Med vänlig hälsning / Best regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Sylvie
>>
>>
>>
>> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
>>
>> Sylvie Le Guyader, PhD
>>
>> Live Cell Imaging Unit Manager
>>
>> Karolinska Institutet- Bionut Dpt
>>
>> Hälsovägen 7,
>>
>> Novum, G lift, floor 6
>>
>> 14157 Huddinge
>>
>> Sweden
>>
>> mobile: [phone]
>>
>> office: [phone]
>>
>> LCI website
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Confocal Microscopy List
>>[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jeremy Adler
>> Sent: den 8 oktober 2015 11:20
>> To:
>>[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]
>>DU>
>> Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Last week I posed a simple question about a conference that was being
>>promoted using this list.
>>
>>
>>
>> 'Alberto, in case my reading of unfamiliar names is incorrect,  could
>>you give us the fraction of the speakers that are male.'
>>
>>
>>
>> There has been no response - the question seems to come down to
>>whether men make up  100% or just 96% of the speakers. Implicit  in
>>the question is how is this possible.
>>
>>
>>
>> The massive under representation women as speakers is not trivial,
>>being invited to speak has considerable career advantages, its looks
>>good on a CV, it provides good networking opportunities beyond those
>>available to conference participants, in addition speakers costs are
>>often met and the unstated deal is that the organizers then
>>expect/hope that the chosen speakers will reciprocate and invite them
>>to their conferences - a loop that further works to exclude women.
>>That speakers often become decision makers on grant applications and
>>publications makes this cosy arrangement even more pernicious.
>>
>>
>>
>> So Alberto please answer a very simple but important  question.
>>
>>

[Andrew York]

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
*****

Last time this came up:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind1503&L=CONFOCALMICROSCOPY&D=0&T=0&P=5784
...there were several nice suggestions for speakers. Anyone
have suggestions this time around?

I recall Sandra Masur offering this resource in the past:
http://www.ascb.org/women-in-cell-biology/speaker-referral-service
I think the updated version of this link is:
http://www.ascb.org/wicb-services/

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 8:47 AM, Sylvie Le Guyader <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Dear Thomas
>
> You get my Like too ;)
>
> Med vänlig hälsning / Best regards
>
> Sylvie
>
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> Sylvie Le Guyader, PhD
> Live Cell Imaging Unit Manager
> Karolinska Institutet- Bionut Dpt
> Hälsovägen 7,
> Novum, G lift, floor 6
> 14157 Huddinge
> Sweden
> mobile: [phone]
> office: [phone]
> LCI website
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]]
> On Behalf Of Phillips, Thomas E.
> Sent: den 8 oktober 2015 16:29
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?
>
> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> "agree with the obvious" - did you mean women should be invited to speak
> at conferences or that this is yet another example of failing to do so?
>
> Women were invited - as a scientist, I have found data can be useful. What
> were the number of each gender invited and what was the acceptance/decline
> rate?
>
> Let's hope a listserver meant to discuss important issues to the field can
> be used for that. But if the list moderator feels differently, it would be
> up to him or her to clarify this policy. Are you on the oversight board for
> the listserver?
>
> If you want to disprove the point made by the earlier posting, maybe you
> want to supply the data yourself. But if FOM is a better gender
> representation, it just goes to prove it is possible and therefore other
> conferences should be equally successful if they are proactive.
>
>
>
>
>
> Thomas E. Phillips, Ph.D
> Professor of Biological Sciences
> Director, Molecular Cytology Core
> 2 Tucker Hall
> University of Missouri
> Columbia, MO 65211-7400
> 573-882-4712 (office)
> 573-882-0123 (fax)
> [hidden email]
>
> http://www.biology.missouri.edu/faculty/phillips.html
> http://www.biotech.missouri.edu/mcc/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]]
> On Behalf Of Palmer, Robert J (NIH/NIDCR) [E]
> Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2015 8:14 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?
>
> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> So now we are finsihed with the hectoring I hope.  Iąm glad this forum is
> not Facebook and there is no łlike˛ button - I have other things to do
> besides watch people agree with the obvious.  Sometimes saying a little is
> saying a lot.
>
> Jeremy - I fully support your concept (really).  It seems you want to make
> this a public crusade.  We all just reveived notice of the annual FOM
> meeting - a much larger event.  Perhaps you could run (or demand) the
> numbers on that one just for the sake of completeness.  The current speaker
> list (many speakers from abstracts, and thus sent by their home
> institutions) is not yet available but plenty of information exists on the
> previous meetings.  Of course, the organizing committee is listed for the
> current meeting.  Given the vitriol with this last episode, the organizers
> may want to premptively address this issue publically right now.
>
> Robert J. Palmer Jr., PhD
> National Institute of Dental and Craniofacial Research National Institutes
> of Health Building 30, Room 207 Bethesda MD 20892
> 301-594-0025
>
>
>
>
> On 10/8/15, 8:58 AM, "Alberto Diaspro" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >*****
> >To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> >http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> >Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> >*****
> >
> >Dear
> >Thank you for your observations. Please, let me tell you that: 1)
> >Eirini is a woman; 2) I personally invited women that, for different
> >reasons, declined; 3) I invited women - as I use to do - not because
> >they are women - simply because they do excellent research in AND
> >(logical) with the fact that I know the research they do; 4) I did not
> >reply because i was on travelling with limited Internet access.
> >I am Sorry for the xtremely low percentage, hopefully you will like
> >Science.
> >
> >Alby iPad
> >
> >> Il giorno 08 ott 2015, alle ore 14:41, Julia Edgar
> >><[hidden email]> ha scritto:
> >>
> >> Yes, much appreciated, Jeremy.
> >> Thank you
> >> Julia
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Confocal Microscopy List
> >>[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sylvie Le
> >>Guyader
> >> Sent: 08 October 2015 13:34
> >> To: [hidden email]
> >> Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?
> >>
> >> There is no 'Like' button on the confocal server and no way to insert
> >>an image in a mail but everyone knows what they look like anyway so I
> >>give Jeremy a huge ŚLikeą.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thank you for your efforts, Jeremy! The Swedish part of me really
> >>appreciates and the French part of me loves it! :)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Med vänlig hälsning / Best regards
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Sylvie
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> >>
> >> Sylvie Le Guyader, PhD
> >>
> >> Live Cell Imaging Unit Manager
> >>
> >> Karolinska Institutet- Bionut Dpt
> >>
> >> Hälsovägen 7,
> >>
> >> Novum, G lift, floor 6
> >>
> >> 14157 Huddinge
> >>
> >> Sweden
> >>
> >> mobile: [phone]
> >>
> >> office: [phone]
> >>
> >> LCI website
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Confocal Microscopy List
> >>[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jeremy Adler
> >> Sent: den 8 oktober 2015 11:20
> >> To:
> >>[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]
> >>DU>
> >> Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Last week I posed a simple question about a conference that was being
> >>promoted using this list.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 'Alberto, in case my reading of unfamiliar names is incorrect,  could
> >>you give us the fraction of the speakers that are male.'
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> There has been no response - the question seems to come down to
> >>whether men make up  100% or just 96% of the speakers. Implicit  in
> >>the question is how is this possible.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The massive under representation women as speakers is not trivial,
> >>being invited to speak has considerable career advantages, its looks
> >>good on a CV, it provides good networking opportunities beyond those
> >>available to conference participants, in addition speakers costs are
> >>often met and the unstated deal is that the organizers then
> >>expect/hope that the chosen speakers will reciprocate and invite them
> >>to their conferences - a loop that further works to exclude women.
> >>That speakers often become decision makers on grant applications and
> >>publications makes this cosy arrangement even more pernicious.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> So Alberto please answer a very simple but important  question.
> >>
> >>
>

[TSwayne]

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
*****



Yes, as I posted last week, the link below leads to an excellent page for finding women in science . This includes the ASCB list and many more.
https://mcb.berkeley.edu/labs/king/node/11


Theresa


On Oct 8, 2015, at 2:27 PM, Andrew York <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>
 wrote:

Last time this came up:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind1503&L=CONFOCALMICROSCOPY&D=0&T=0&P=5784
...there were several nice suggestions for speakers. Anyone
have suggestions this time around?

I recall Sandra Masur offering this resource in the past:
http://www.ascb.org/women-in-cell-biology/speaker-referral-service
I think the updated version of this link is:
http://www.ascb.org/wicb-services/

------------------------------------
Theresa Swayne, Ph.D.
Manager
Confocal and Specialized Microscopy Shared Resource<http://hiccc.columbia.edu/research/sharedresources/confocal>

Herbert Irving Comprehensive Cancer Center
Columbia University Medical Center
1130 St. Nicholas Ave., Room 222A
New York, NY 10032
Phone: [phone]
[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>

[Barbara Foster]

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
*****

Dear Listers,

On one hand, I am glad to hear that this group is
so aware.  On the other, I find it discouraging
in this day and age to think that we actually
have to "balance out" our programs just to make
sure that each segment of the population is
proportionately represented.  Several years ago,
I received a call from an NIH Study Chair, asking
if I knew of any scientists of a specific race so
that they could have "proportional
representation" in the grant process.  I found
the question insulting.  All along, I was
operating under what seems to be a
misconception:  wasn't the whole NIH granting
process (and that of other government
institutions) supposed to be
color/gender/nationality neutral?  I realized
that, in my world view, people either did good
science or didn't.  Either they were open and
sharing with their science or they weren't.  It
never occurred to me to consider anything
else.  When I was one of two women in an
undergraduate physics class of 80, it never
dawned on me to do anything but
participate.  More recently, when I was one of
two women out of 52 attendees of a major
conference given in a country in which women are
not seen quite as equally, I stood proudly at the
podium and delivered my paper.  Later, the
translator for a major industrialist approached
me and said, "Mr. X could not understand why you
were there, until he heard you speak.  Then he
knew that he must do business with you."

Have I faced discrimination as a woman?  Yes, but
when that has happened, I did my best to find a
different job, a different location or a
different approach.  Case in point:  When I was
on the road as  a tech apps specialist for a
major microscope company,  an older gentleman of
another culture opened the door of his lab to
find me standing there and pronounced, with some
surprise, "You!  You are the tech apps
specialist?  But you are a woman!"  My response
was, "Yes, but I can still handle a
screw-driver.  Now, where is your microscope?" We
got on quite nicely after that.

I applaud Alby's response.   And as for
under-representation... if there are INDIVIDUALS
out there... whether they be pink, purple, or
polka-dot; male or female.. who are doing good
science but not getting enough recognition, then
it's OUR responsibility, as their colleagues, to
step up and recommend them for activities so that
they can share in opportunities like publishing
or giving papers/posters, etc.  Microscopy is
global.  I would hope that our world-views would be, too.

That's my two cents

Barbara Foster, President & Chief Consultant
Microscopy/Microscopy Education  ... "Education, not Training"
7101 Royal Glen Trail, Suite A  - McKinney, TX 75070 - P: 972-924-5310
www.MicroscopyEducation.com





At 02:37 AM 10/8/2015, Alberto Diaspro wrote:

>*****
>To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
>http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
>Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
>*****
>
>Dear
>Thank you for your observations. Please, let me
>tell you that: 1) Eirini is a woman; 2) I
>personally invited women that, for different
>reasons, declined; 3) I invited women - as I use
>to do - not because they are women - simply
>because they do excellent research in AND
>(logical) with the fact that I know the research
>they do; 4) I did not reply because i was on
>travelling with limited Internet access.
>I am Sorry for the xtremely low percentage, hopefully you will like Science.
>
>Alby iPad
>
> > Il giorno 08 ott 2015, alle ore 14:41, Julia
> Edgar <[hidden email]> ha scritto:
> >
> > Yes, much appreciated, Jeremy.
> > Thank you
> > Julia
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Confocal Microscopy List
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sylvie Le Guyader
> > Sent: 08 October 2015 13:34
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?
> >
> > There is no 'Like' button on the confocal
> server and no way to insert an image in a mail
> but everyone knows what they look like anyway
> so I give Jeremy a huge ‘Like’.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you for your efforts, Jeremy! The
> Swedish part of me really appreciates and the French part of me loves it! :)
> >
> >
> >
> > Med vänlig hälsning / Best regards
> >
> >
> >
> > Sylvie
> >
> >
> >
> > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> >
> > Sylvie Le Guyader, PhD
> >
> > Live Cell Imaging Unit Manager
> >
> > Karolinska Institutet- Bionut Dpt
> >
> > Hälsovägen 7,
> >
> > Novum, G lift, floor 6
> >
> > 14157 Huddinge
> >
> > Sweden
> >
> > mobile: [phone]
> >
> > office: [phone]
> >
> > LCI website
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Confocal Microscopy List
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jeremy Adler
> > Sent: den 8 oktober 2015 11:20
> > To:
> [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
> > Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?
> >
> >
> >
> > Last week I posed a simple question about a
> conference that was being promoted using this list.
> >
> >
> >
> > 'Alberto, in case my reading of unfamiliar
> names is incorrect,  could you give us the
> fraction of the speakers that are male.'
> >
> >
> >
> > There has been no response - the question
> seems to come down to whether men make up  100%
> or just 96% of the speakers. Implicit  in the question is how is this possible.
> >
> >
> >
> > The massive under representation women as
> speakers is not trivial, being invited to speak
> has considerable career advantages, its looks
> good on a CV, it provides good networking
> opportunities beyond those available to
> conference participants, in addition speakers
> costs are often met and the unstated deal is
> that the organizers then expect/hope that the
> chosen speakers will reciprocate and invite
> them to their conferences - a loop that further
> works to exclude women. That speakers often
> become decision makers on grant applications
> and publications makes this cosy arrangement even more pernicious.
> >
> >
> >
> > So Alberto please answer a very simple but important  question.
> >
> >

[rjpalmer]

Like

On 10/8/15, 3:52 PM, "Barbara Foster" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>*****
>To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
>http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
>Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
>*****
>
>Dear Listers,
>
>On one hand, I am glad to hear that this group is
>so aware.  On the other, I find it discouraging
>in this day and age to think that we actually
>have to "balance out" our programs just to make
>sure that each segment of the population is
>proportionately represented.  Several years ago,
>I received a call from an NIH Study Chair, asking
>if I knew of any scientists of a specific race so
>that they could have "proportional
>representation" in the grant process.  I found
>the question insulting.  All along, I was
>operating under what seems to be a
>misconception:  wasn't the whole NIH granting
>process (and that of other government
>institutions) supposed to be
>color/gender/nationality neutral?  I realized
>that, in my world view, people either did good
>science or didn't.  Either they were open and
>sharing with their science or they weren't.  It
>never occurred to me to consider anything
>else.  When I was one of two women in an
>undergraduate physics class of 80, it never
>dawned on me to do anything but
>participate.  More recently, when I was one of
>two women out of 52 attendees of a major
>conference given in a country in which women are
>not seen quite as equally, I stood proudly at the
>podium and delivered my paper.  Later, the
>translator for a major industrialist approached
>me and said, "Mr. X could not understand why you
>were there, until he heard you speak.  Then he
>knew that he must do business with you."
>
>Have I faced discrimination as a woman?  Yes, but
>when that has happened, I did my best to find a
>different job, a different location or a
>different approach.  Case in point:  When I was
>on the road as  a tech apps specialist for a
>major microscope company,  an older gentleman of
>another culture opened the door of his lab to
>find me standing there and pronounced, with some
>surprise, "You!  You are the tech apps
>specialist?  But you are a woman!"  My response
>was, "Yes, but I can still handle a
>screw-driver.  Now, where is your microscope?" We
>got on quite nicely after that.
>
>I applaud Alby's response.   And as for
>under-representation... if there are INDIVIDUALS
>out there... whether they be pink, purple, or
>polka-dot; male or female.. who are doing good
>science but not getting enough recognition, then
>it's OUR responsibility, as their colleagues, to
>step up and recommend them for activities so that
>they can share in opportunities like publishing
>or giving papers/posters, etc.  Microscopy is
>global.  I would hope that our world-views would be, too.
>
>That's my two cents
>
>Barbara Foster, President & Chief Consultant
>Microscopy/Microscopy Education  ... "Education, not Training"
>7101 Royal Glen Trail, Suite A  - McKinney, TX 75070 - P: 972-924-5310
>www.MicroscopyEducation.com
>
>
>
>
>
>At 02:37 AM 10/8/2015, Alberto Diaspro wrote:
>>*****
>>To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
>>http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
>>Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
>>*****
>>
>>Dear
>>Thank you for your observations. Please, let me
>>tell you that: 1) Eirini is a woman; 2) I
>>personally invited women that, for different
>>reasons, declined; 3) I invited women - as I use
>>to do - not because they are women - simply
>>because they do excellent research in AND
>>(logical) with the fact that I know the research
>>they do; 4) I did not reply because i was on
>>travelling with limited Internet access.
>>I am Sorry for the xtremely low percentage, hopefully you will like
>>Science.
>>
>>Alby iPad
>>
>> > Il giorno 08 ott 2015, alle ore 14:41, Julia
>> Edgar <[hidden email]> ha scritto:
>> >
>> > Yes, much appreciated, Jeremy.
>> > Thank you
>> > Julia
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Confocal Microscopy List
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sylvie Le Guyader
>> > Sent: 08 October 2015 13:34
>> > To: [hidden email]
>> > Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No
>>women ?
>> >
>> > There is no 'Like' button on the confocal
>> server and no way to insert an image in a mail
>> but everyone knows what they look like anyway
>> so I give Jeremy a huge ‘Like’.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Thank you for your efforts, Jeremy! The
>> Swedish part of me really appreciates and the French part of me loves
>>it! :)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Med vänlig hälsning / Best regards
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Sylvie
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
>> >
>> > Sylvie Le Guyader, PhD
>> >
>> > Live Cell Imaging Unit Manager
>> >
>> > Karolinska Institutet- Bionut Dpt
>> >
>> > Hälsovägen 7,
>> >
>> > Novum, G lift, floor 6
>> >
>> > 14157 Huddinge
>> >
>> > Sweden
>> >
>> > mobile: [phone]
>> >
>> > office: [phone]
>> >
>> > LCI website
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Confocal Microscopy List
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jeremy Adler
>> > Sent: den 8 oktober 2015 11:20
>> > To:
>>
>>[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
>> > Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No
>>women ?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Last week I posed a simple question about a
>> conference that was being promoted using this list.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > 'Alberto, in case my reading of unfamiliar
>> names is incorrect,  could you give us the
>> fraction of the speakers that are male.'
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > There has been no response - the question
>> seems to come down to whether men make up  100%
>> or just 96% of the speakers. Implicit  in the question is how is this
>>possible.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > The massive under representation women as
>> speakers is not trivial, being invited to speak
>> has considerable career advantages, its looks
>> good on a CV, it provides good networking
>> opportunities beyond those available to
>> conference participants, in addition speakers
>> costs are often met and the unstated deal is
>> that the organizers then expect/hope that the
>> chosen speakers will reciprocate and invite
>> them to their conferences - a loop that further
>> works to exclude women. That speakers often
>> become decision makers on grant applications
>> and publications makes this cosy arrangement even more pernicious.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > So Alberto please answer a very simple but important  question.
>> >
>> >

[Julia Edgar]

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
*****

Dear All
I don't think any of us who expressed gratitude for Jeremy's message suggested there should be a "balance out". Personally, I believe in meritocracy. But, that 96 % of speakers are male does seem somewhat disproportionate. However, I must admit that I don't know what proportion of males/ females  work in this field and /or were available to speak. Nonetheless, Jeremy raised some very important points regarding how invitations to speak affect career progression for ALL.
Julia

Dear Listers,

On one hand, I am glad to hear that this group is
so aware.  On the other, I find it discouraging
in this day and age to think that we actually
have to "balance out" our programs just to make
sure that each segment of the population is
proportionately represented.  Several years ago,
I received a call from an NIH Study Chair, asking
if I knew of any scientists of a specific race so
that they could have "proportional
representation" in the grant process.  I found
the question insulting.  All along, I was
operating under what seems to be a
misconception:  wasn't the whole NIH granting
process (and that of other government
institutions) supposed to be
color/gender/nationality neutral?  I realized
that, in my world view, people either did good
science or didn't.  Either they were open and
sharing with their science or they weren't.  It
never occurred to me to consider anything
else.  When I was one of two women in an
undergraduate physics class of 80, it never
dawned on me to do anything but
participate.  More recently, when I was one of
two women out of 52 attendees of a major
conference given in a country in which women are
not seen quite as equally, I stood proudly at the
podium and delivered my paper.  Later, the
translator for a major industrialist approached
me and said, "Mr. X could not understand why you
were there, until he heard you speak.  Then he
knew that he must do business with you."

Have I faced discrimination as a woman?  Yes, but
when that has happened, I did my best to find a
different job, a different location or a
different approach.  Case in point:  When I was
on the road as  a tech apps specialist for a
major microscope company,  an older gentleman of
another culture opened the door of his lab to
find me standing there and pronounced, with some
surprise, "You!  You are the tech apps
specialist?  But you are a woman!"  My response
was, "Yes, but I can still handle a
screw-driver.  Now, where is your microscope?" We
got on quite nicely after that.

I applaud Alby's response.   And as for
under-representation... if there are INDIVIDUALS
out there... whether they be pink, purple, or
polka-dot; male or female.. who are doing good
science but not getting enough recognition, then
it's OUR responsibility, as their colleagues, to
step up and recommend them for activities so that
they can share in opportunities like publishing
or giving papers/posters, etc.  Microscopy is
global.  I would hope that our world-views would be, too.

That's my two cents

Barbara Foster, President & Chief Consultant
Microscopy/Microscopy Education  ... "Education, not Training"
7101 Royal Glen Trail, Suite A  - McKinney, TX 75070 - P: 972-924-5310
www.MicroscopyEducation.com





At 02:37 AM 10/8/2015, Alberto Diaspro wrote:

>*****
>To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
>http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
>Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
>*****
>
>Dear
>Thank you for your observations. Please, let me
>tell you that: 1) Eirini is a woman; 2) I
>personally invited women that, for different
>reasons, declined; 3) I invited women - as I use
>to do - not because they are women - simply
>because they do excellent research in AND
>(logical) with the fact that I know the research
>they do; 4) I did not reply because i was on
>travelling with limited Internet access.
>I am Sorry for the xtremely low percentage, hopefully you will like Science.
>
>Alby iPad
>
> > Il giorno 08 ott 2015, alle ore 14:41, Julia
> Edgar <[hidden email]> ha scritto:
> >
> > Yes, much appreciated, Jeremy.
> > Thank you
> > Julia
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Confocal Microscopy List
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sylvie Le Guyader
> > Sent: 08 October 2015 13:34
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?
> >
> > There is no 'Like' button on the confocal
> server and no way to insert an image in a mail
> but everyone knows what they look like anyway
> so I give Jeremy a huge ‘Like’.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you for your efforts, Jeremy! The
> Swedish part of me really appreciates and the French part of me loves it! :)
> >
> >
> >
> > Med vänlig hälsning / Best regards
> >
> >
> >
> > Sylvie
> >
> >
> >
> > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> >
> > Sylvie Le Guyader, PhD
> >
> > Live Cell Imaging Unit Manager
> >
> > Karolinska Institutet- Bionut Dpt
> >
> > Hälsovägen 7,
> >
> > Novum, G lift, floor 6
> >
> > 14157 Huddinge
> >
> > Sweden
> >
> > mobile: [phone]
> >
> > office: [phone]
> >
> > LCI website
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Confocal Microscopy List
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jeremy Adler
> > Sent: den 8 oktober 2015 11:20
> > To:
> [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
> > Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?
> >
> >
> >
> > Last week I posed a simple question about a
> conference that was being promoted using this list.
> >
> >
> >
> > 'Alberto, in case my reading of unfamiliar
> names is incorrect,  could you give us the
> fraction of the speakers that are male.'
> >
> >
> >
> > There has been no response - the question
> seems to come down to whether men make up  100%
> or just 96% of the speakers. Implicit  in the question is how is this possible.
> >
> >
> >
> > The massive under representation women as
> speakers is not trivial, being invited to speak
> has considerable career advantages, its looks
> good on a CV, it provides good networking
> opportunities beyond those available to
> conference participants, in addition speakers
> costs are often met and the unstated deal is
> that the organizers then expect/hope that the
> chosen speakers will reciprocate and invite
> them to their conferences - a loop that further
> works to exclude women. That speakers often
> become decision makers on grant applications
> and publications makes this cosy arrangement even more pernicious.
> >
> >
> >
> > So Alberto please answer a very simple but important  question.
> >
> >

[Cvic Innocent]

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
*****

Hello all

(I am fairly new to the field so forgive me waving from the back.) While I
understand saying "we are scientists first and gender, race or whathaveyou
should not come into play" is a nice thought... it nevertheless will not
help change the obvious and real imbalance.

What will change the imbalance is a concerted effort to think, "Are there
other (fully capable) people in my field who I am not inviting (because
those names dont automatically come to mind... because they weren't invited
speakers at other conferences I have attended)?" and, "Let me find a way to
invite her." To me it is far less about absolute number and much more about
increasing the diversity of speakers heard at conferences.

Lastly, I wholeheartedly loved this discourse. Yet, further emails saying
Yay or Nay will not further the cause. No need to beat a dead horse and no
blame game:]

Instead let us all put a tiny bit of effort to see a change in for the next
time around.

Cordially,
cvic

a newbie

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 9:43 PM, Julia Edgar <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Dear All
> I don't think any of us who expressed gratitude for Jeremy's message
> suggested there should be a "balance out". Personally, I believe in
> meritocracy. But, that 96 % of speakers are male does seem somewhat
> disproportionate. However, I must admit that I don't know what proportion
> of males/ females  work in this field and /or were available to speak.
> Nonetheless, Jeremy raised some very important points regarding how
> invitations to speak affect career progression for ALL.
> Julia
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> On one hand, I am glad to hear that this group is
> so aware.  On the other, I find it discouraging
> in this day and age to think that we actually
> have to "balance out" our programs just to make
> sure that each segment of the population is
> proportionately represented.  Several years ago,
> I received a call from an NIH Study Chair, asking
> if I knew of any scientists of a specific race so
> that they could have "proportional
> representation" in the grant process.  I found
> the question insulting.  All along, I was
> operating under what seems to be a
> misconception:  wasn't the whole NIH granting
> process (and that of other government
> institutions) supposed to be
> color/gender/nationality neutral?  I realized
> that, in my world view, people either did good
> science or didn't.  Either they were open and
> sharing with their science or they weren't.  It
> never occurred to me to consider anything
> else.  When I was one of two women in an
> undergraduate physics class of 80, it never
> dawned on me to do anything but
> participate.  More recently, when I was one of
> two women out of 52 attendees of a major
> conference given in a country in which women are
> not seen quite as equally, I stood proudly at the
> podium and delivered my paper.  Later, the
> translator for a major industrialist approached
> me and said, "Mr. X could not understand why you
> were there, until he heard you speak.  Then he
> knew that he must do business with you."
>
> Have I faced discrimination as a woman?  Yes, but
> when that has happened, I did my best to find a
> different job, a different location or a
> different approach.  Case in point:  When I was
> on the road as  a tech apps specialist for a
> major microscope company,  an older gentleman of
> another culture opened the door of his lab to
> find me standing there and pronounced, with some
> surprise, "You!  You are the tech apps
> specialist?  But you are a woman!"  My response
> was, "Yes, but I can still handle a
> screw-driver.  Now, where is your microscope?" We
> got on quite nicely after that.
>
> I applaud Alby's response.   And as for
> under-representation... if there are INDIVIDUALS
> out there... whether they be pink, purple, or
> polka-dot; male or female.. who are doing good
> science but not getting enough recognition, then
> it's OUR responsibility, as their colleagues, to
> step up and recommend them for activities so that
> they can share in opportunities like publishing
> or giving papers/posters, etc.  Microscopy is
> global.  I would hope that our world-views would be, too.
>
> That's my two cents
>
> Barbara Foster, President & Chief Consultant
> Microscopy/Microscopy Education  ... "Education, not Training"
> 7101 Royal Glen Trail, Suite A  - McKinney, TX 75070 - P: 972-924-5310
> www.MicroscopyEducation.com
>
>
>
>
>
> At 02:37 AM 10/8/2015, Alberto Diaspro wrote:
> >*****
> >To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> >http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> >Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> >*****
> >
> >Dear
> >Thank you for your observations. Please, let me
> >tell you that: 1) Eirini is a woman; 2) I
> >personally invited women that, for different
> >reasons, declined; 3) I invited women - as I use
> >to do - not because they are women - simply
> >because they do excellent research in AND
> >(logical) with the fact that I know the research
> >they do; 4) I did not reply because i was on
> >travelling with limited Internet access.
> >I am Sorry for the xtremely low percentage, hopefully you will like
> Science.
> >
> >Alby iPad
> >
> > > Il giorno 08 ott 2015, alle ore 14:41, Julia
> > Edgar <[hidden email]> ha scritto:
> > >
> > > Yes, much appreciated, Jeremy.
> > > Thank you
> > > Julia
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Confocal Microscopy List
> > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sylvie Le Guyader
> > > Sent: 08 October 2015 13:34
> > > To: [hidden email]
> > > Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women
> ?
> > >
> > > There is no 'Like' button on the confocal
> > server and no way to insert an image in a mail
> > but everyone knows what they look like anyway
> > so I give Jeremy a huge ‘Like’.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you for your efforts, Jeremy! The
> > Swedish part of me really appreciates and the French part of me loves
> it! :)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Med vänlig hälsning / Best regards
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sylvie
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> > >
> > > Sylvie Le Guyader, PhD
> > >
> > > Live Cell Imaging Unit Manager
> > >
> > > Karolinska Institutet- Bionut Dpt
> > >
> > > Hälsovägen 7,
> > >
> > > Novum, G lift, floor 6
> > >
> > > 14157 Huddinge
> > >
> > > Sweden
> > >
> > > mobile: [phone]
> > >
> > > office: [phone]
> > >
> > > LCI website
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Confocal Microscopy List
> > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jeremy Adler
> > > Sent: den 8 oktober 2015 11:20
> > > To:
> > [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > > Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women
> ?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Last week I posed a simple question about a
> > conference that was being promoted using this list.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 'Alberto, in case my reading of unfamiliar
> > names is incorrect,  could you give us the
> > fraction of the speakers that are male.'
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > There has been no response - the question
> > seems to come down to whether men make up  100%
> > or just 96% of the speakers. Implicit  in the question is how is this
> possible.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The massive under representation women as
> > speakers is not trivial, being invited to speak
> > has considerable career advantages, its looks
> > good on a CV, it provides good networking
> > opportunities beyond those available to
> > conference participants, in addition speakers
> > costs are often met and the unstated deal is
> > that the organizers then expect/hope that the
> > chosen speakers will reciprocate and invite
> > them to their conferences - a loop that further
> > works to exclude women. That speakers often
> > become decision makers on grant applications
> > and publications makes this cosy arrangement even more pernicious.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > So Alberto please answer a very simple but important  question.
> > >
> > >
>

[Periasamy, Ammasi (ap3t)]

Dear All
In support of Alby......
Alby has been promoting advanced microscopy and advanced optical technology for long time. He is also  involved in the Biophysical Society and SPIE, multiphoton microscopy conferences. He is a very enthusiastic person and I attended few of his meetings at Genoa and I was unable to attend few of them due to my other commitments. This goes for everyone (male or female sicentists) due to other commitments we may not able to attend.
Alby never has the mind or intention to discriminate any gender or any basis. sometimes it happens when you put together a program, it's not a big deal considering his Alby's outstanding performance in this area. I think it is a tricky question to raise when a person is enthusiastically organizing and promoting the microcopy techniques.
Have a great day.
Ammasi

Dr. Ammasi Periasamy
Professor & Center Director
http://www.kcci.virginia.edu/people/profile/ap3t
Phone: [phone] or 982-4869
Fax: [phone]
E-mail: [hidden email]
Office Location
W.M. Keck Center for Cellular Imaging
Physical and Life Sciences Building, (B 005)
At the intersection of Geldard dr and White head Rd.,
Mailing or Shipping Address:
W.M. Keck Center for Cellular Imaging (PLSB 005)
University of Virginia
Biology, Gilmer Hall, 409 McCormick Rd.
Charlottesville, VA 22904, USA
FRET/FLIM Workshop-March 7-11, 2016: http://www.kcci.virginia.edu/workshop 




-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Barbara Foster
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2015 3:53 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
*****

Dear Listers,

On one hand, I am glad to hear that this group is so aware.  On the other, I find it discouraging in this day and age to think that we actually have to "balance out" our programs just to make sure that each segment of the population is proportionately represented.  Several years ago, I received a call from an NIH Study Chair, asking if I knew of any scientists of a specific race so that they could have "proportional representation" in the grant process.  I found the question insulting.  All along, I was operating under what seems to be a
misconception:  wasn't the whole NIH granting process (and that of other government
institutions) supposed to be
color/gender/nationality neutral?  I realized that, in my world view, people either did good science or didn't.  Either they were open and sharing with their science or they weren't.  It never occurred to me to consider anything else.  When I was one of two women in an undergraduate physics class of 80, it never dawned on me to do anything but participate.  More recently, when I was one of two women out of 52 attendees of a major conference given in a country in which women are not seen quite as equally, I stood proudly at the podium and delivered my paper.  Later, the translator for a major industrialist approached me and said, "Mr. X could not understand why you were there, until he heard you speak.  Then he knew that he must do business with you."

Have I faced discrimination as a woman?  Yes, but when that has happened, I did my best to find a different job, a different location or a different approach.  Case in point:  When I was on the road as  a tech apps specialist for a major microscope company,  an older gentleman of another culture opened the door of his lab to find me standing there and pronounced, with some surprise, "You!  You are the tech apps specialist?  But you are a woman!"  My response was, "Yes, but I can still handle a screw-driver.  Now, where is your microscope?" We got on quite nicely after that.

I applaud Alby's response.   And as for
under-representation... if there are INDIVIDUALS out there... whether they be pink, purple, or polka-dot; male or female.. who are doing good science but not getting enough recognition, then it's OUR responsibility, as their colleagues, to step up and recommend them for activities so that they can share in opportunities like publishing or giving papers/posters, etc.  Microscopy is global.  I would hope that our world-views would be, too.

That's my two cents

Barbara Foster, President & Chief Consultant Microscopy/Microscopy Education  ... "Education, not Training"
7101 Royal Glen Trail, Suite A  - McKinney, TX 75070 - P: 972-924-5310 www.MicroscopyEducation.com





At 02:37 AM 10/8/2015, Alberto Diaspro wrote:

>*****
>To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
>http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
>Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
>*****
>
>Dear
>Thank you for your observations. Please, let me tell you that: 1)
>Eirini is a woman; 2) I personally invited women that, for different
>reasons, declined; 3) I invited women - as I use to do - not because
>they are women - simply because they do excellent research in AND
>(logical) with the fact that I know the research they do; 4) I did not
>reply because i was on travelling with limited Internet access.
>I am Sorry for the xtremely low percentage, hopefully you will like Science.
>
>Alby iPad
>
> > Il giorno 08 ott 2015, alle ore 14:41, Julia
> Edgar <[hidden email]> ha scritto:
> >
> > Yes, much appreciated, Jeremy.
> > Thank you
> > Julia
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Confocal Microscopy List
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sylvie Le
> Guyader
> > Sent: 08 October 2015 13:34
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?
> >
> > There is no 'Like' button on the confocal
> server and no way to insert an image in a mail but everyone knows what
> they look like anyway so I give Jeremy a huge ‘Like’.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you for your efforts, Jeremy! The
> Swedish part of me really appreciates and the French part of me loves
> it! :)
> >
> >
> >
> > Med vänlig hälsning / Best regards
> >
> >
> >
> > Sylvie
> >
> >
> >
> > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> >
> > Sylvie Le Guyader, PhD
> >
> > Live Cell Imaging Unit Manager
> >
> > Karolinska Institutet- Bionut Dpt
> >
> > Hälsovägen 7,
> >
> > Novum, G lift, floor 6
> >
> > 14157 Huddinge
> >
> > Sweden
> >
> > mobile: [phone]
> >
> > office: [phone]
> >
> > LCI website
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Confocal Microscopy List
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jeremy Adler
> > Sent: den 8 oktober 2015 11:20
> > To:
> [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]
> DU>
> > Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?
> >
> >
> >
> > Last week I posed a simple question about a
> conference that was being promoted using this list.
> >
> >
> >
> > 'Alberto, in case my reading of unfamiliar
> names is incorrect,  could you give us the fraction of the speakers
> that are male.'
> >
> >
> >
> > There has been no response - the question
> seems to come down to whether men make up  100% or just 96% of the
> speakers. Implicit  in the question is how is this possible.
> >
> >
> >
> > The massive under representation women as
> speakers is not trivial, being invited to speak has considerable
> career advantages, its looks good on a CV, it provides good networking
> opportunities beyond those available to conference participants, in
> addition speakers costs are often met and the unstated deal is that
> the organizers then expect/hope that the chosen speakers will
> reciprocate and invite them to their conferences - a loop that further
> works to exclude women. That speakers often become decision makers on
> grant applications and publications makes this cosy arrangement even
> more pernicious.
> >
> >
> >
> > So Alberto please answer a very simple but important  question.
> >
> >

[Jeremy Adler-4]

Alby, one of our great and good decision makers, has been gently teased about nearly managing to hold a major conference without any women speakers.
In his defence Dr. Ammasi Periasami writes that Alby is a fundamentally decent chap and therefore "it's not a big deal".

A conference with 96% male speakers might be a statistical anomaly, though I am not aware of any similar meetings where a sole male speaker was the novelty.  Being generous we might argue that Genoa is at the very extreme edge of a distribution where the average proportion of male speakers in the 75-85% range, maybe in part because few women become part of the great and good.
But this only shifts the question, why does the number of women at the top of the pyramid does not reflect their presence at graduate and postdoc level ?

I suspect that there is a persistent low level bias in favour of men – who disproportionately win 50:50 decisions and frequently triumph as the weaker choice in 60:40 decisions. Careers are built on these decisions:  jobs, grants, fellowships, prizes, publications, collaborations, conference invitations. And while no single decision is fatal the cumulative effect appears at Genoa and other meetings – a near absence of scientists who are women, or even  their complete absence,  see the recent posting for the Scottish Microscopy Group 2015 Symposium list of named speakers.

The solution is not quotas, which are patronizing and become a stick for beating the surviving women, but instead to demand fair and honest decision making, a process that would be expected to produce a much more consistent sex ratio at all levels.

The clever part of Dr. Ammasi Periasami’s  the post is to make Alby into the victim. Sure Alby has been teased and with the help of friends will recover – sufficiently at least to just circulate one of his 15 year old papers. The real victims are science:  talks not given, ideas not tested and the missing women.  

The remedy is in the hands of the decent chaps who make decisions and in rejecting the "it's not a big deal" mantra.  Sex discrimination is a very big deal, at least for science and for the missing women, but, in a zero sum game, there are winners.

-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Periasamy, Ammasi (ap3t)
Sent: den 9 oktober 2015 16:33
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?

Dear All
In support of Alby......
Alby has been promoting advanced microscopy and advanced optical technology for long time. He is also  involved in the Biophysical Society and SPIE, multiphoton microscopy conferences. He is a very enthusiastic person and I attended few of his meetings at Genoa and I was unable to attend few of them due to my other commitments. This goes for everyone (male or female sicentists) due to other commitments we may not able to attend.
Alby never has the mind or intention to discriminate any gender or any basis. sometimes it happens when you put together a program, it's not a big deal considering his Alby's outstanding performance in this area. I think it is a tricky question to raise when a person is enthusiastically organizing and promoting the microcopy techniques.
Have a great day.
Ammasi

Dr. Ammasi Periasamy
Professor & Center Director
http://www.kcci.virginia.edu/people/profile/ap3t
Phone: [phone] or 982-4869
Fax: [phone]
E-mail: [hidden email]
Office Location
W.M. Keck Center for Cellular Imaging
Physical and Life Sciences Building, (B 005) At the intersection of Geldard dr and White head Rd., Mailing or Shipping Address:
W.M. Keck Center for Cellular Imaging (PLSB 005) University of Virginia Biology, Gilmer Hall, 409 McCormick Rd.
Charlottesville, VA 22904, USA
FRET/FLIM Workshop-March 7-11, 2016: http://www.kcci.virginia.edu/workshop 




-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Barbara Foster
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2015 3:53 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
*****

Dear Listers,

On one hand, I am glad to hear that this group is so aware.  On the other, I find it discouraging in this day and age to think that we actually have to "balance out" our programs just to make sure that each segment of the population is proportionately represented.  Several years ago, I received a call from an NIH Study Chair, asking if I knew of any scientists of a specific race so that they could have "proportional representation" in the grant process.  I found the question insulting.  All along, I was operating under what seems to be a
misconception:  wasn't the whole NIH granting process (and that of other government
institutions) supposed to be
color/gender/nationality neutral?  I realized that, in my world view, people either did good science or didn't.  Either they were open and sharing with their science or they weren't.  It never occurred to me to consider anything else.  When I was one of two women in an undergraduate physics class of 80, it never dawned on me to do anything but participate.  More recently, when I was one of two women out of 52 attendees of a major conference given in a country in which women are not seen quite as equally, I stood proudly at the podium and delivered my paper.  Later, the translator for a major industrialist approached me and said, "Mr. X could not understand why you were there, until he heard you speak.  Then he knew that he must do business with you."

Have I faced discrimination as a woman?  Yes, but when that has happened, I did my best to find a different job, a different location or a different approach.  Case in point:  When I was on the road as  a tech apps specialist for a major microscope company,  an older gentleman of another culture opened the door of his lab to find me standing there and pronounced, with some surprise, "You!  You are the tech apps specialist?  But you are a woman!"  My response was, "Yes, but I can still handle a screw-driver.  Now, where is your microscope?" We got on quite nicely after that.

I applaud Alby's response.   And as for
under-representation... if there are INDIVIDUALS out there... whether they be pink, purple, or polka-dot; male or female.. who are doing good science but not getting enough recognition, then it's OUR responsibility, as their colleagues, to step up and recommend them for activities so that they can share in opportunities like publishing or giving papers/posters, etc.  Microscopy is global.  I would hope that our world-views would be, too.

That's my two cents

Barbara Foster, President & Chief Consultant Microscopy/Microscopy Education  ... "Education, not Training"
7101 Royal Glen Trail, Suite A  - McKinney, TX 75070 - P: 972-924-5310 www.MicroscopyEducation.com





At 02:37 AM 10/8/2015, Alberto Diaspro wrote:

>*****
>To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
>http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
>Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
>*****
>
>Dear
>Thank you for your observations. Please, let me tell you that: 1)
>Eirini is a woman; 2) I personally invited women that, for different
>reasons, declined; 3) I invited women - as I use to do - not because
>they are women - simply because they do excellent research in AND
>(logical) with the fact that I know the research they do; 4) I did not
>reply because i was on travelling with limited Internet access.
>I am Sorry for the xtremely low percentage, hopefully you will like Science.
>
>Alby iPad
>
> > Il giorno 08 ott 2015, alle ore 14:41, Julia
> Edgar <[hidden email]> ha scritto:
> >
> > Yes, much appreciated, Jeremy.
> > Thank you
> > Julia
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Confocal Microscopy List
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sylvie Le
> Guyader
> > Sent: 08 October 2015 13:34
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?
> >
> > There is no 'Like' button on the confocal
> server and no way to insert an image in a mail but everyone knows what
> they look like anyway so I give Jeremy a huge ‘Like’.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you for your efforts, Jeremy! The
> Swedish part of me really appreciates and the French part of me loves
> it! :)
> >
> >
> >
> > Med vänlig hälsning / Best regards
> >
> >
> >
> > Sylvie
> >
> >
> >
> > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> >
> > Sylvie Le Guyader, PhD
> >
> > Live Cell Imaging Unit Manager
> >
> > Karolinska Institutet- Bionut Dpt
> >
> > Hälsovägen 7,
> >
> > Novum, G lift, floor 6
> >
> > 14157 Huddinge
> >
> > Sweden
> >
> > mobile: [phone]
> >
> > office: [phone]
> >
> > LCI website
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Confocal Microscopy List
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jeremy Adler
> > Sent: den 8 oktober 2015 11:20
> > To:
> [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]
> DU>
> > Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?
> >
> >
> >
> > Last week I posed a simple question about a
> conference that was being promoted using this list.
> >
> >
> >
> > 'Alberto, in case my reading of unfamiliar
> names is incorrect,  could you give us the fraction of the speakers
> that are male.'
> >
> >
> >
> > There has been no response - the question
> seems to come down to whether men make up  100% or just 96% of the
> speakers. Implicit  in the question is how is this possible.
> >
> >
> >
> > The massive under representation women as
> speakers is not trivial, being invited to speak has considerable
> career advantages, its looks good on a CV, it provides good networking
> opportunities beyond those available to conference participants, in
> addition speakers costs are often met and the unstated deal is that
> the organizers then expect/hope that the chosen speakers will
> reciprocate and invite them to their conferences - a loop that further
> works to exclude women. That speakers often become decision makers on
> grant applications and publications makes this cosy arrangement even
> more pernicious.
> >
> >
> >
> > So Alberto please answer a very simple but important  question.
> >
> >

[Alberto Diaspro]

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
*****

Dear
I decided to reply since you are mentioning me.
I think that your email is “self commenting”.  I really do not understand your points.
Are you full of anger? are you frustrated for something? They missed you in the Nobel prize nominations? I do not understand.
From my side, I apologise for stopping to reply on this topic. If there is something wrong I did, please write me and we can discuss about it. I am sorry to say that my impression is that you look like the “only real victim” of yourself.
All the best
Alby

p.s. I circulated a 15 years old paper simply to remind Sabrina Beretta, a coworker of mine, that unfortunately died young for cancer. Even if she was a woman, my email was not related to the current discussion about women, men, conferences etc… Sabrina Beretta was great coworker and I simply miss her. In case the name was “Carlo” (male name) I would have done the same.


Il giorno 12 ott, 2015, alle ore 11:53, Jeremy Adler <[hidden email]> ha scritto:

Alby, one of our great and good decision makers, has been gently teased about nearly managing to hold a major conference without any women speakers.
In his defence Dr. Ammasi Periasami writes that Alby is a fundamentally decent chap and therefore "it's not a big deal".

A conference with 96% male speakers might be a statistical anomaly, though I am not aware of any similar meetings where a sole male speaker was the novelty.  Being generous we might argue that Genoa is at the very extreme edge of a distribution where the average proportion of male speakers in the 75-85% range, maybe in part because few women become part of the great and good.
But this only shifts the question, why does the number of women at the top of the pyramid does not reflect their presence at graduate and postdoc level ?

I suspect that there is a persistent low level bias in favour of men – who disproportionately win 50:50 decisions and frequently triumph as the weaker choice in 60:40 decisions. Careers are built on these decisions:  jobs, grants, fellowships, prizes, publications, collaborations, conference invitations. And while no single decision is fatal the cumulative effect appears at Genoa and other meetings – a near absence of scientists who are women, or even  their complete absence,  see the recent posting for the Scottish Microscopy Group 2015 Symposium list of named speakers.

The solution is not quotas, which are patronizing and become a stick for beating the surviving women, but instead to demand fair and honest decision making, a process that would be expected to produce a much more consistent sex ratio at all levels.

The clever part of Dr. Ammasi Periasami’s  the post is to make Alby into the victim. Sure Alby has been teased and with the help of friends will recover – sufficiently at least to just circulate one of his 15 year old papers. The real victims are science:  talks not given, ideas not tested and the missing women.  

The remedy is in the hands of the decent chaps who make decisions and in rejecting the "it's not a big deal" mantra.  Sex discrimination is a very big deal, at least for science and for the missing women, but, in a zero sum game, there are winners.

-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Periasamy, Ammasi (ap3t)
Sent: den 9 oktober 2015 16:33
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?

Dear All
In support of Alby......
Alby has been promoting advanced microscopy and advanced optical technology for long time. He is also  involved in the Biophysical Society and SPIE, multiphoton microscopy conferences. He is a very enthusiastic person and I attended few of his meetings at Genoa and I was unable to attend few of them due to my other commitments. This goes for everyone (male or female sicentists) due to other commitments we may not able to attend.
Alby never has the mind or intention to discriminate any gender or any basis. sometimes it happens when you put together a program, it's not a big deal considering his Alby's outstanding performance in this area. I think it is a tricky question to raise when a person is enthusiastically organizing and promoting the microcopy techniques.
Have a great day.
Ammasi

Dr. Ammasi Periasamy
Professor & Center Director
http://www.kcci.virginia.edu/people/profile/ap3t
Phone: [phone] or 982-4869
Fax: [phone]
E-mail: [hidden email]
Office Location
W.M. Keck Center for Cellular Imaging
Physical and Life Sciences Building, (B 005) At the intersection of Geldard dr and White head Rd., Mailing or Shipping Address:
W.M. Keck Center for Cellular Imaging (PLSB 005) University of Virginia Biology, Gilmer Hall, 409 McCormick Rd.
Charlottesville, VA 22904, USA
FRET/FLIM Workshop-March 7-11, 2016: http://www.kcci.virginia.edu/workshop 




-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Barbara Foster
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2015 3:53 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
*****

Dear Listers,

On one hand, I am glad to hear that this group is so aware.  On the other, I find it discouraging in this day and age to think that we actually have to "balance out" our programs just to make sure that each segment of the population is proportionately represented.  Several years ago, I received a call from an NIH Study Chair, asking if I knew of any scientists of a specific race so that they could have "proportional representation" in the grant process.  I found the question insulting.  All along, I was operating under what seems to be a
misconception:  wasn't the whole NIH granting process (and that of other government
institutions) supposed to be
color/gender/nationality neutral?  I realized that, in my world view, people either did good science or didn't.  Either they were open and sharing with their science or they weren't.  It never occurred to me to consider anything else.  When I was one of two women in an undergraduate physics class of 80, it never dawned on me to do anything but participate.  More recently, when I was one of two women out of 52 attendees of a major conference given in a country in which women are not seen quite as equally, I stood proudly at the podium and delivered my paper.  Later, the translator for a major industrialist approached me and said, "Mr. X could not understand why you were there, until he heard you speak.  Then he knew that he must do business with you."

Have I faced discrimination as a woman?  Yes, but when that has happened, I did my best to find a different job, a different location or a different approach.  Case in point:  When I was on the road as  a tech apps specialist for a major microscope company,  an older gentleman of another culture opened the door of his lab to find me standing there and pronounced, with some surprise, "You!  You are the tech apps specialist?  But you are a woman!"  My response was, "Yes, but I can still handle a screw-driver.  Now, where is your microscope?" We got on quite nicely after that.

I applaud Alby's response.   And as for
under-representation... if there are INDIVIDUALS out there... whether they be pink, purple, or polka-dot; male or female.. who are doing good science but not getting enough recognition, then it's OUR responsibility, as their colleagues, to step up and recommend them for activities so that they can share in opportunities like publishing or giving papers/posters, etc.  Microscopy is global.  I would hope that our world-views would be, too.

That's my two cents

Barbara Foster, President & Chief Consultant Microscopy/Microscopy Education  ... "Education, not Training"
7101 Royal Glen Trail, Suite A  - McKinney, TX 75070 - P: 972-924-5310 www.MicroscopyEducation.com





At 02:37 AM 10/8/2015, Alberto Diaspro wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Dear
> Thank you for your observations. Please, let me tell you that: 1)
> Eirini is a woman; 2) I personally invited women that, for different
> reasons, declined; 3) I invited women - as I use to do - not because
> they are women - simply because they do excellent research in AND
> (logical) with the fact that I know the research they do; 4) I did not
> reply because i was on travelling with limited Internet access.
> I am Sorry for the xtremely low percentage, hopefully you will like Science.
>
> Alby iPad
>
>> Il giorno 08 ott 2015, alle ore 14:41, Julia
> Edgar <[hidden email]> ha scritto:
>>
>> Yes, much appreciated, Jeremy.
>> Thank you
>> Julia
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Confocal Microscopy List
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sylvie Le
> Guyader
>> Sent: 08 October 2015 13:34
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?
>>
>> There is no 'Like' button on the confocal
> server and no way to insert an image in a mail but everyone knows what
> they look like anyway so I give Jeremy a huge ‘Like’.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you for your efforts, Jeremy! The
> Swedish part of me really appreciates and the French part of me loves
> it! :)
>>
>>
>>
>> Med vänlig hälsning / Best regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Sylvie
>>
>>
>>
>> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
>>
>> Sylvie Le Guyader, PhD
>>
>> Live Cell Imaging Unit Manager
>>
>> Karolinska Institutet- Bionut Dpt
>>
>> Hälsovägen 7,
>>
>> Novum, G lift, floor 6
>>
>> 14157 Huddinge
>>
>> Sweden
>>
>> mobile: [phone]
>>
>> office: [phone]
>>
>> LCI website
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Confocal Microscopy List
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jeremy Adler
>> Sent: den 8 oktober 2015 11:20
>> To:
> [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]
> DU>
>> Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Last week I posed a simple question about a
> conference that was being promoted using this list.
>>
>>
>>
>> 'Alberto, in case my reading of unfamiliar
> names is incorrect,  could you give us the fraction of the speakers
> that are male.'
>>
>>
>>
>> There has been no response - the question
> seems to come down to whether men make up  100% or just 96% of the
> speakers. Implicit  in the question is how is this possible.
>>
>>
>>
>> The massive under representation women as
> speakers is not trivial, being invited to speak has considerable
> career advantages, its looks good on a CV, it provides good networking
> opportunities beyond those available to conference participants, in
> addition speakers costs are often met and the unstated deal is that
> the organizers then expect/hope that the chosen speakers will
> reciprocate and invite them to their conferences - a loop that further
> works to exclude women. That speakers often become decision makers on
> grant applications and publications makes this cosy arrangement even
> more pernicious.
>>
>>
>>
>> So Alberto please answer a very simple but important  question.
>>
>>

[Johannes Schindelin]

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
*****

Alberto,

On 2015-10-13 08:10, Alberto Diaspro wrote:

> Dear

His name is Jeremy.

> I decided to reply since you are mentioning me.
> I think that your email is “self commenting”.  I really do not
> understand your points.
> Are you full of anger? are you frustrated for something? They missed
> you in the Nobel prize nominations? I do not understand.

I have to admit that I was utterly shocked to see this statement.

It is bad and sad enough that respected leaders in science do not see
any problem with announcing ~100% male speaker line-ups. And it is not
the first time, but seems to repeat itself over and over and over again.

It is also quite distressing for me to see that you did not even feel
the need to reply to the concerns brought to you in a timely manner.

But then to go on and *belittle* somebody who mustered enough courage to
voice his opinion? This is appalling.

If anything, it is proof to me that there is a serious lack of empathy
in science. I perceived this response as just a bullyish method to
discourage dissent.

But maybe this is just a cunning strategy to demonstrate the dear need
to balance out the gender inequality in science's higher ranks?

> From my side, I apologise for stopping to reply on this topic. If
> there is something wrong I did, please write me and we can discuss
> about it. I am sorry to say that my impression is that you look like
> the “only real victim” of yourself.

No, the real victim is science. Good, decent, polite scientists are
driven out of science by the problem that elicited this email thread.

I hope that a few will remain.

Ciao,
Johannes

[Csúcs Gábor-3]

Dear All,

With all the respect to all the people who were so far involved in this discussion - would it be possible to stop it right now?
I would suggest that you continue it directly or establish a new mailing list dedicated to the subject.

Thanks      Gabor


-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Johannes Schindelin
Sent: Dienstag, 13. Oktober 2015 13:37
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
*****

Alberto,

On 2015-10-13 08:10, Alberto Diaspro wrote:

> Dear

His name is Jeremy.

> I decided to reply since you are mentioning me.
> I think that your email is “self commenting”.  I really do not
> understand your points.
> Are you full of anger? are you frustrated for something? They missed
> you in the Nobel prize nominations? I do not understand.

I have to admit that I was utterly shocked to see this statement.

It is bad and sad enough that respected leaders in science do not see any problem with announcing ~100% male speaker line-ups. And it is not the first time, but seems to repeat itself over and over and over again.

It is also quite distressing for me to see that you did not even feel the need to reply to the concerns brought to you in a timely manner.

But then to go on and *belittle* somebody who mustered enough courage to voice his opinion? This is appalling.

If anything, it is proof to me that there is a serious lack of empathy in science. I perceived this response as just a bullyish method to discourage dissent.

But maybe this is just a cunning strategy to demonstrate the dear need to balance out the gender inequality in science's higher ranks?

> From my side, I apologise for stopping to reply on this topic. If
> there is something wrong I did, please write me and we can discuss
> about it. I am sorry to say that my impression is that you look like
> the “only real victim” of yourself.

No, the real victim is science. Good, decent, polite scientists are driven out of science by the problem that elicited this email thread.

I hope that a few will remain.

Ciao,
Johannes

[Müller,Tobias]

Hello,

This thread started as an interesting, admirable effort to shed light on a persistent problem. It has culminated in three posts that were snide (Jeremy), angry (Alberto) and "shocked" (Johannes). None of these seemed to me to serve any goal except to express gut feelings. Maybe we should all think about whether we want to actually change something or just yell at each other. Frustration is not the best advisor when it comes to writing posts to this list. Being scientists, let's use arguments.

Best (and only mildly annoyed),
Tobias


p.s.: My five cents: If, as Jeremy says, presence at conferences is part of a loop resulting in being invited again to other conferences, then this is a deeper problem that should be addressed as well. This not only discriminates against women but against any underrepresented group, and also makes it hard for newcomers to be heard. The solution should not be to put women into the loop (which in itself is only the result of a flawed system), but to change the rules by which speakers are selected so that the selection becomes truly independent of any features (gender and the like) except scientific excellence.




-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Johannes Schindelin
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 1:37 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Bioimaging in Genoa - Open access - Great Talks, No women ?

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
*****

Alberto,

On 2015-10-13 08:10, Alberto Diaspro wrote:

> Dear

His name is Jeremy.

> I decided to reply since you are mentioning me.
> I think that your email is “self commenting”.  I really do not
> understand your points.
> Are you full of anger? are you frustrated for something? They missed
> you in the Nobel prize nominations? I do not understand.

I have to admit that I was utterly shocked to see this statement.

It is bad and sad enough that respected leaders in science do not see any problem with announcing ~100% male speaker line-ups. And it is not the first time, but seems to repeat itself over and over and over again.

It is also quite distressing for me to see that you did not even feel the need to reply to the concerns brought to you in a timely manner.

But then to go on and *belittle* somebody who mustered enough courage to voice his opinion? This is appalling.

If anything, it is proof to me that there is a serious lack of empathy in science. I perceived this response as just a bullyish method to discourage dissent.

But maybe this is just a cunning strategy to demonstrate the dear need to balance out the gender inequality in science's higher ranks?

> From my side, I apologise for stopping to reply on this topic. If
> there is something wrong I did, please write me and we can discuss
> about it. I am sorry to say that my impression is that you look like
> the “only real victim” of yourself.

No, the real victim is science. Good, decent, polite scientists are driven out of science by the problem that elicited this email thread.

I hope that a few will remain.

Ciao,
Johannes