SIM systems - offline computer, do you charge users to us the computer?

[Cromey, Douglas W - (dcromey)]

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
*****

We are planning a University core facility around a Structured Illumination Microscope.  One of the discussions is to what extent we should (or should not) charge users for using the second workstation for processing their SIM images or just working with the data (which is large enough to be potentially difficult to work with on more average computers).  For those of you who have such an instrument, how do you do it?  Do you have different rates for sitting at the workstation, vs overnight batch-type image processing of the raw SIM data?

If you would like to be "off the record", please respond to me privately.  I am also willing to post "de-identified" information as a summary once I've heard from everyone who has something to say.

Thanks!
Doug

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Douglas W. Cromey, M.S. - Associate Scientific Investigator
Dept. of Cellular & Molecular Medicine, University of Arizona
1501 N. Campbell Ave, Tucson, AZ  85724-5044 USA

office:  AHSC 4212         email: [hidden email]
voice:  520-626-2824       fax:  [phone]

http://swehsc.pharmacy.arizona.edu/micro
Home of: "Microscopy and Imaging Resources on the WWW"

UA Microscopy Alliance -  http://microscopy.arizona.edu<http://microscopy.arizona.edu/>

[mcfrain]

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
*****

Hi Doug,

Our facility has several imaging systems and workstations. What we usually do is
that we charge one third of the rate for the imaging systems. And the rate per
hour stays the same regardless of how long the users use the workstations.

Fanrui

[George McNamara]

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
*****

Hi Doug,

I vote for "no charge" for using the analysis workstation. You want both
computers on a fast network, get the data out of the acquisition
computer during/after every session, do all the analysis on this
workstation or enable the users to operate at their desks (if they have
MetaMorph or install ImageJ, Cellprofiler, FEC Express Image Cytometry,
RapidMiner -> Tableau, etc).

If the vendor sold you a crappy monitor (anything less than 2560x1600
pixel), you might charge a few dollars per hour to recoup the cost of
buying this:

http://www.amazon.com/Dell-UP3214Q-31-5-Inch-Computer-Monitor/dp/B00H0H3ZEY


  Dell UP3214Q 31.5-Inch True 4K Computer Monitor - UltraSharp 32 Ultra
  HD IGZO LCD UHD Monitor - 3840x2160 Resolution + 99% AdobeRGB and 100%
  sRGB Coverage

(price at amazon today is $2,499 ... Dell list price is usually $100
more ... no guess what 'academic' price is going to be through your U's
computer vendor ... also, original price for this monitor was $3,499 in
12/2013, was $2,700 a couple of weeks ago). Note: NVidia TITAN GPU card
to drive the "4K" monitor - and do things like Bruce & Butte 2013 GPU
deconvolution - is another ~$1,050 (was that price in Devember, amazon
price has gone up
http://www.amazon.com/EVGA-GeForce-mDisplayPort-Graphics-04G-P4-2690-KR/dp/B007ZRO3U4   
).


George


On 3/11/2014 4:39 PM, Cromey, Douglas W - (dcromey) wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> *****
>
> We are planning a University core facility around a Structured Illumination Microscope.  One of the discussions is to what extent we should (or should not) charge users for using the second workstation for processing their SIM images or just working with the data (which is large enough to be potentially difficult to work with on more average computers).  For those of you who have such an instrument, how do you do it?  Do you have different rates for sitting at the workstation, vs overnight batch-type image processing of the raw SIM data?
>
> If you would like to be "off the record", please respond to me privately.  I am also willing to post "de-identified" information as a summary once I've heard from everyone who has something to say.
>
> Thanks!
> Doug
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Douglas W. Cromey, M.S. - Associate Scientific Investigator
> Dept. of Cellular&  Molecular Medicine, University of Arizona
> 1501 N. Campbell Ave, Tucson, AZ  85724-5044 USA
>
> office:  AHSC 4212         email: [hidden email]
> voice:  520-626-2824       fax:  [phone]
>
> http://swehsc.pharmacy.arizona.edu/micro
> Home of: "Microscopy and Imaging Resources on the WWW"
>
> UA Microscopy Alliance -  http://microscopy.arizona.edu<http://microscopy.arizona.edu/>
>
>    

--



George McNamara, Ph.D.
Single Cells Analyst
L.J.N. Cooper Lab
University of Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Center
Houston, TX 77054
Tattletales http://works.bepress.com/gmcnamara/26/

[DamirSudar]

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
*****

Hi Doug,

We typically do not charge for using standalone analysis workstations.
This to provide a strong incentive for folks to get off the computers
that drive the microscopes and leave those free for actual microscope
users. So for our OMX SIM microscope, I'm setting up a separate
reconstruction and analysis workstation (away from the OMX itself) so
folks can do their batch reconstructions etc there.

- Damir

On 3/11/2014 2:39 PM, Cromey, Douglas W - (dcromey) wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> *****
>
> We are planning a University core facility around a Structured Illumination Microscope.  One of the discussions is to what extent we should (or should not) charge users for using the second workstation for processing their SIM images or just working with the data (which is large enough to be potentially difficult to work with on more average computers).  For those of you who have such an instrument, how do you do it?  Do you have different rates for sitting at the workstation, vs overnight batch-type image processing of the raw SIM data?
>
> If you would like to be "off the record", please respond to me privately.  I am also willing to post "de-identified" information as a summary once I've heard from everyone who has something to say.
>
> Thanks!
> Doug
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Douglas W. Cromey, M.S. - Associate Scientific Investigator
> Dept. of Cellular & Molecular Medicine, University of Arizona
> 1501 N. Campbell Ave, Tucson, AZ  85724-5044 USA
>
> office:  AHSC 4212         email: [hidden email]
> voice:  520-626-2824       fax:  [phone]
>
> http://swehsc.pharmacy.arizona.edu/micro
> Home of: "Microscopy and Imaging Resources on the WWW"
>
> UA Microscopy Alliance -  http://microscopy.arizona.edu<http://microscopy.arizona.edu/>

--
Damir Sudar - Staff Scientist and Division Deputy, Science
Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory / Life Sciences Division
One Cyclotron Road, MS 977, Berkeley, CA 94720, USA
T: 510/486-5346 - F: 510/486-5586 - E: [hidden email]
WWW: http://www.lbl.gov/lsd/People_&_Organization/Scientific_Staff_Directory/Sudar_Lab.html

[Andreas Bruckbauer]

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
*****

Hi Dough, Fanrui,
I would expect the price of the analysis workstation to be only 1% of the microscope price, so i think charging one third is not justified.
Andreas

-----Original Message-----
From: "Fanrui Meng" <[hidden email]>
Sent: ‎12/‎03/‎2014 00:00
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: SIM systems - offline computer, do you charge users to us the computer?

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
*****

Hi Doug,

Our facility has several imaging systems and workstations. What we usually do is
that we charge one third of the rate for the imaging systems. And the rate per
hour stays the same regardless of how long the users use the workstations.

Fanrui

[Glen MacDonald-2]

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
*****

Hi Doug,
We rolled the costs of offline workstations and any annual software costs into the instrument rate.  Anyone using the workstation is also using the instrument.  Such software is sufficiently expensive that few investigators will invest in their own copy.   Maybe your SIM workstation can also be available to other uses, such as FIJI or preparing figures, in which case you can either assume that it’s the same user base, or pro rate the SIM charge.  


Glen MacDonald
        Core for Communication Research
Virginia Merrill Bloedel Hearing Research Center
        Cellular Morphology Core
Center on Human Development and Disability
Box 357923
University of Washington
Seattle, WA 98195-7923  USA
[phone]
[hidden email]







On Mar 11, 2014, at 2:39 PM, Cromey, Douglas W - (dcromey) <[hidden email]> wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> *****
>
> We are planning a University core facility around a Structured Illumination Microscope.  One of the discussions is to what extent we should (or should not) charge users for using the second workstation for processing their SIM images or just working with the data (which is large enough to be potentially difficult to work with on more average computers).  For those of you who have such an instrument, how do you do it?  Do you have different rates for sitting at the workstation, vs overnight batch-type image processing of the raw SIM data?
>
> If you would like to be "off the record", please respond to me privately.  I am also willing to post "de-identified" information as a summary once I've heard from everyone who has something to say.
>
> Thanks!
> Doug
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Douglas W. Cromey, M.S. - Associate Scientific Investigator
> Dept. of Cellular & Molecular Medicine, University of Arizona
> 1501 N. Campbell Ave, Tucson, AZ  85724-5044 USA
>
> office:  AHSC 4212         email: [hidden email]
> voice:  520-626-2824       fax:  [phone]
>
> http://swehsc.pharmacy.arizona.edu/micro
> Home of: "Microscopy and Imaging Resources on the WWW"
>
> UA Microscopy Alliance -  http://microscopy.arizona.edu<http://microscopy.arizona.edu/>