Strange shape appears on dichroic after blowing with compressed air
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Steven Hou |
Strange shape appears on dichroic after blowing with compressed air
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To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting. ***** Hi everyone, I saw that the main dichroic that we are using for a multiphoton microscope was getting dusty and decided to clean with compressed air. The air duster we use is from Newport (https://www.newport.com/f/canned-air-duster). Strangely on one of our blows, a white area appeared on our filter forming an elliptical shape which quickly turned into a white/green-ish halo (see image here: https://imgur.com/rlrP0yB) that does not seem to be going away. This is on the opposing side of the AR coating. I was under the impression that using compressed air was a safe way to clean optics. Has anyone else encountered a similar problem? Has the compressed air damaged the coating in some way? Thanks, Steve |
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Martin Wessendorf-2 |
Re: Strange shape appears on dichroic after blowing with compressed air
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To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting. ***** Dear Dr. Hou-- My guess is that as the air from the can expanded, its temperature dropped, cooling the mirror and allowing water from the air to condense on the surface. If true, I would want to check with the manufacturer before assuming that the mirror is unchanged. Good luck.... Martin Wessendorf On 3/28/2019 3:29 PM, Steven Hou wrote: > ***** > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to: > http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy > Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting. > ***** > > Hi everyone, I saw that the main dichroic that we are using for a multiphoton microscope was getting dusty and decided to clean with compressed air. The air duster we use is from Newport (https://www.newport.com/f/canned-air-duster). Strangely on one of our blows, a white area appeared on our filter forming an elliptical shape which quickly turned into a white/green-ish halo (see image here: https://imgur.com/rlrP0yB) that does not seem to be going away. This is on the opposing side of the AR coating. > > I was under the impression that using compressed air was a safe way to clean optics. Has anyone else encountered a similar problem? Has the compressed air damaged the coating in some way? > > Thanks, > Steve -- Martin Wessendorf, Ph.D. office: (612) 626-0145 Assoc Prof, Dept Neuroscience lab: (612) 624-2991 University of Minnesota Preferred FAX: (612) 624-8118 6-145 Jackson Hall, 321 Church St. SE Dept Fax: (612) 626-5009 Minneapolis, MN 55455 e-mail: [hidden email] My preferred pronouns are "he", "him", and "his" |
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Craig Brideau |
Re: Strange shape appears on dichroic after blowing with compressed air
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In reply to this post by Steven Hou
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To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting. ***** Oh, Steven, that's not good. The canned air contains propellant that can end up contaminating your optics. Use a blub blower instead like this one: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1317992-REG/visibledust_19112366_zee_pro_sensor_cleaning.html (no commercial interest but I use them in our lab). If the artifact you are seeing is not going away then its probably contaminant from the can. You will need to remove the filter and clean it. Craig On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 2:30 PM Steven Hou <[hidden email]> wrote: > ***** > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to: > http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy > Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting. > ***** > > Hi everyone, I saw that the main dichroic that we are using for a > multiphoton microscope was getting dusty and decided to clean with > compressed air. The air duster we use is from Newport ( > https://www.newport.com/f/canned-air-duster). Strangely on one of our > blows, a white area appeared on our filter forming an elliptical shape > which quickly turned into a white/green-ish halo (see image here: > https://imgur.com/rlrP0yB) that does not seem to be going away. This is > on the opposing side of the AR coating. > > I was under the impression that using compressed air was a safe way to > clean optics. Has anyone else encountered a similar problem? Has the > compressed air damaged the coating in some way? > > Thanks, > Steve > |
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In reply to this post by Steven Hou
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To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting. ***** Steve My experience from years ago when I was a field service rep indicates to me a mist of compressor oil from when the can was charged. This is not unusual to see with canned air especially on front surface mirrors and dichroics. You are at the mercy of the bottling company when you use those cans. Sometimes you get one that does that. You might want to try the “Optic Bulb Blower” on the same page as the link you provided and use a micron filter on the intake side so you don’t get dirt into the bulb. If you do go that route, replace the bulb every couple of years because eventually the rubber will break down and contribute its own particles. As long as they are new and internally clean they work well. You should check with the manufacturer of the dichroic to find out what they recommend to clean it. Some dichroics go to pieces when wet so be careful. Dan On Mar 28, 2019, at 4:29 PM, Steven Hou <[hidden email]> wrote: ***** To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting. ***** Hi everyone, I saw that the main dichroic that we are using for a multiphoton microscope was getting dusty and decided to clean with compressed air. The air duster we use is from Newport (https://www.newport.com/f/canned-air-duster). Strangely on one of our blows, a white area appeared on our filter forming an elliptical shape which quickly turned into a white/green-ish halo (see image here: https://imgur.com/rlrP0yB) that does not seem to be going away. This is on the opposing side of the AR coating. I was under the impression that using compressed air was a safe way to clean optics. Has anyone else encountered a similar problem? Has the compressed air damaged the coating in some way? Thanks, Steve Dan Focht Bioptechs Inc. 3560 Beck Road Butler, PA 16002-9259 Office: 724-282-7145 Toll Free: 877-LIVE-CELL (548-3235) [hidden email] www.bioptechs.com |
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Nicolai.Urban@mpfi.org |
Re: Strange shape appears on dichroic after blowing with compressed air
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In reply to this post by Craig Brideau
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To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting. ***** Hi Steven, it could be both of the above, so think back on how exactly you were cleaning your optics: >> Was it only for very short bursts? Or was it longer... this could have caused a drop in temperature to cause problems, as Martin suggested. >> Did you always hold your can upright and not rotated (i.e. as it would stand on a shelf)? If not, this greatly increases the chance of things other than air spitting out of your can (such as propellant, as Craig suggested), which would then need to be chemically removed (risky when applied to a dichroic, unfortunately). Both of these can be avoided by using a manual air puffer/blower instead. Good luck in restoring your optics! Nicolai ----------------------------------------------------------------- Nicolai T. Urban Max Planck Florida Institute for Neuroscience 1 Max Planck Way Jupiter, FL 33458 -----Original Message----- From: Confocal Microscopy List <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Craig Brideau Sent: Donnerstag, 28. März 2019 16:46 To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: Strange shape appears on dichroic after blowing with compressed air ***** To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to: https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.umn.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3Dconfocalmicroscopy&data=02%7C01%7CNicolai.Urban%40MPFI.ORG%7C901e57fc1308475159d408d6b3befca2%7C947b45517db44636a5fd1bdcad603ed0%7C0%7C0%7C636894030207057584&sdata=ARVmXxx4ltPcKYvHDGb3kyi88EjbfYb7NK0LiBSd6h4%3D&reserved=0 Post images on https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.imgur.com&data=02%7C01%7CNicolai.Urban%40MPFI.ORG%7C901e57fc1308475159d408d6b3befca2%7C947b45517db44636a5fd1bdcad603ed0%7C0%7C0%7C636894030207057584&sdata=d1cCpGe2tD5KQ%2FnIHbn1smqAfyfg1dtlalcbhJmP4N4%3D&reserved=0 and include the link in your posting. ***** Oh, Steven, that's not good. The canned air contains propellant that can end up contaminating your optics. Use a blub blower instead like this one: https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bhphotovideo.com%2Fc%2Fproduct%2F1317992-REG%2Fvisibledust_19112366_zee_pro_sensor_cleaning.html&data=02%7C01%7CNicolai.Urban%40MPFI.ORG%7C901e57fc1308475159d408d6b3befca2%7C947b45517db44636a5fd1bdcad603ed0%7C0%7C0%7C636894030207057584&sdata=I1f6e9r9Ui2GVZyKOxJxh0b9sXLB8qTRERhR4szhiMc%3D&reserved=0 (no commercial interest but I use them in our lab). If the artifact you are seeing is not going away then its probably contaminant from the can. You will need to remove the filter and clean it. Craig On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 2:30 PM Steven Hou <[hidden email]> wrote: > ***** > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to: > https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists > .umn.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwa%3FA0%3Dconfocalmicroscopy&data=02%7C01%7CN > icolai.Urban%40MPFI.ORG%7C901e57fc1308475159d408d6b3befca2%7C947b45517 > db44636a5fd1bdcad603ed0%7C0%7C0%7C636894030207057584&sdata=ARVmXxx > 4ltPcKYvHDGb3kyi88EjbfYb7NK0LiBSd6h4%3D&reserved=0 > Post images on https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.imgur.com&data=02%7C01%7CNicolai.Urban%40MPFI.ORG%7C901e57fc1308475159d408d6b3befca2%7C947b45517db44636a5fd1bdcad603ed0%7C0%7C0%7C636894030207057584&sdata=d1cCpGe2tD5KQ%2FnIHbn1smqAfyfg1dtlalcbhJmP4N4%3D&reserved=0 and include the link in your posting. > ***** > > Hi everyone, I saw that the main dichroic that we are using for a > multiphoton microscope was getting dusty and decided to clean with > compressed air. The air duster we use is from Newport ( > https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww. > newport.com%2Ff%2Fcanned-air-duster&data=02%7C01%7CNicolai.Urban%4 > 0MPFI.ORG%7C901e57fc1308475159d408d6b3befca2%7C947b45517db44636a5fd1bdcad603ed0%7C0%7C0%7C636894030207057584&sdata=WcWB5qt1YKOgYSRx0GvPYkFJjS4y6vOY5pEThJ2uTno%3D&reserved=0). Strangely on one of our blows, a white area appeared on our filter forming an elliptical shape which quickly turned into a white/green-ish halo (see image here: > https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fimgu > r.com%2FrlrP0yB&data=02%7C01%7CNicolai.Urban%40MPFI.ORG%7C901e57fc1308475159d408d6b3befca2%7C947b45517db44636a5fd1bdcad603ed0%7C0%7C0%7C636894030207057584&sdata=V0y0vLd0xIbMKbRXky8TUmGOGmDeaePVSSvq3f0wGm8%3D&reserved=0) that does not seem to be going away. This is on the opposing side of the AR coating. > > I was under the impression that using compressed air was a safe way to > clean optics. Has anyone else encountered a similar problem? Has the > compressed air damaged the coating in some way? > > Thanks, > Steve > |
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Zdenek Svindrych-2 |
Re: Strange shape appears on dichroic after blowing with compressed air
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In reply to this post by Steven Hou
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To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting. ***** Hi Steve, as mentioned, it could be condensation dissolving some dirt on the glass and then evaporating. Also, these cans are full of liquid, and if you're not careful enough (shaking the can or not holding it upright, especially when full), the liquid is expelled and can leave residue. Some cans also contain bittering agent! (I always try to pick the ones that don't, I don't know about the Newport stuff, try to find an MSDS) I would just clean it with ethanol swab or tissue or something, and be more careful next time... best, zdenek On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 4:30 PM Steven Hou <[hidden email]> wrote: > ***** > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to: > http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy > Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting. > ***** > > Hi everyone, I saw that the main dichroic that we are using for a > multiphoton microscope was getting dusty and decided to clean with > compressed air. The air duster we use is from Newport ( > https://www.newport.com/f/canned-air-duster). Strangely on one of our > blows, a white area appeared on our filter forming an elliptical shape > which quickly turned into a white/green-ish halo (see image here: > https://imgur.com/rlrP0yB) that does not seem to be going away. This is > on the opposing side of the AR coating. > > I was under the impression that using compressed air was a safe way to > clean optics. Has anyone else encountered a similar problem? Has the > compressed air damaged the coating in some way? > > Thanks, > Steve > -- -- Zdenek Svindrych, Ph.D. Research Associate - Imaging Specialist Department of Biochemistry and Cell Biology Geisel School of Medicine at Dartmouth |
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Michael Giacomelli-2 |
Re: Strange shape appears on dichroic after blowing with compressed air
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To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting. ***** Hi, Stains from compressed air are common, especially if you have them upside down when you try to dust. Usually it is some oil left over from the manufacturing/packaging process that was dissolved in the r134a while under pressure. I've never had trouble cleaning it off of lenses using methanol/lens paper. Remove the filter, get some forceps and lens paper, and wipe it off. Mike On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 5:11 PM Zdenek Svindrych <[hidden email]> wrote: > > ***** > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to: > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.umn.edu_cgi-2Dbin_wa-3FA0-3Dconfocalmicroscopy&d=DwIBaQ&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=0LyF_z8oU1XGGyisIeOIXyIGIM5IYb3NcLjxHjUca5Y&m=v9xR28A9o9HMpog1lN1QwZo7k7Jqk-3qGhmpFCnYr0s&s=8eO0iEpUQIN1WcKMv60wr7jSIrUoQYL5IEo4N62vxRU&e= > Post images on https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.imgur.com&d=DwIBaQ&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=0LyF_z8oU1XGGyisIeOIXyIGIM5IYb3NcLjxHjUca5Y&m=v9xR28A9o9HMpog1lN1QwZo7k7Jqk-3qGhmpFCnYr0s&s=9G01lQXNo2zGbkcK2g1M8I_kdGq5c0rGwKQs-8X7aVE&e= and include the link in your posting. > ***** > > Hi Steve, > > as mentioned, it could be condensation dissolving some dirt on the glass > and then evaporating. > > Also, these cans are full of liquid, and if you're not careful enough > (shaking the can or not holding it upright, especially when full), the > liquid is expelled and can leave residue. Some cans also contain bittering > agent! (I always try to pick the ones that don't, I don't know about the > Newport stuff, try to find an MSDS) > > I would just clean it with ethanol swab or tissue or something, and be more > careful next time... > > best, zdenek > > On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 4:30 PM Steven Hou <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > ***** > > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to: > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.umn.edu_cgi-2Dbin_wa-3FA0-3Dconfocalmicroscopy&d=DwIBaQ&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=0LyF_z8oU1XGGyisIeOIXyIGIM5IYb3NcLjxHjUca5Y&m=v9xR28A9o9HMpog1lN1QwZo7k7Jqk-3qGhmpFCnYr0s&s=8eO0iEpUQIN1WcKMv60wr7jSIrUoQYL5IEo4N62vxRU&e= > > Post images on https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.imgur.com&d=DwIBaQ&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=0LyF_z8oU1XGGyisIeOIXyIGIM5IYb3NcLjxHjUca5Y&m=v9xR28A9o9HMpog1lN1QwZo7k7Jqk-3qGhmpFCnYr0s&s=9G01lQXNo2zGbkcK2g1M8I_kdGq5c0rGwKQs-8X7aVE&e= and include the link in your posting. > > ***** > > > > Hi everyone, I saw that the main dichroic that we are using for a > > multiphoton microscope was getting dusty and decided to clean with > > compressed air. The air duster we use is from Newport ( > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.newport.com_f_canned-2Dair-2Dduster&d=DwIBaQ&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=0LyF_z8oU1XGGyisIeOIXyIGIM5IYb3NcLjxHjUca5Y&m=v9xR28A9o9HMpog1lN1QwZo7k7Jqk-3qGhmpFCnYr0s&s=plo9D4MMHG9GOaLtbRMKHiEgigXZ8nBlEww9bSYYHfM&e=). Strangely on one of our > > blows, a white area appeared on our filter forming an elliptical shape > > which quickly turned into a white/green-ish halo (see image here: > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__imgur.com_rlrP0yB&d=DwIBaQ&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=0LyF_z8oU1XGGyisIeOIXyIGIM5IYb3NcLjxHjUca5Y&m=v9xR28A9o9HMpog1lN1QwZo7k7Jqk-3qGhmpFCnYr0s&s=yVpHTIHws5BcXeKYBpGvbVsANl5rnaDMDbtJrbSWYHU&e=) that does not seem to be going away. This is > > on the opposing side of the AR coating. > > > > I was under the impression that using compressed air was a safe way to > > clean optics. Has anyone else encountered a similar problem? Has the > > compressed air damaged the coating in some way? > > > > Thanks, > > Steve > > > > > -- > -- > Zdenek Svindrych, Ph.D. > Research Associate - Imaging Specialist > Department of Biochemistry and Cell Biology > Geisel School of Medicine at Dartmouth |
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Steven Hou |
Re: Strange shape appears on dichroic after blowing with compressed air
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In reply to this post by Steven Hou
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To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting. ***** Thank you everyone for your great insights and advice. I will contact the manufacture to confirm with them how I should proceed with cleaning the mirror. One thing we have in our lab is "First Contact" polymer cleaning kit from Newport (https://www.newport.com/f/polymer-optic-cleaning-kits). Would you think that this would be safe to use for cleaning dichroic mirrors in general or might this be riskier than directly using solvents like acetone or methanol? Thanks, Steve |
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Michael Giacomelli-2 |
Re: Strange shape appears on dichroic after blowing with compressed air
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Craig Brideau |
Re: Strange shape appears on dichroic after blowing with compressed air
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In reply to this post by Steven Hou
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To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting. ***** First contact works well if you know how to use it. It takes some playing around with the layer thickness to get it right. If you don't know what you are doing you end up with bits of First Contact stuck to your optic. I would start with isopropyl and/or methanol alcohols first, forceps, and a proper optics cleaning tissue. Craig On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 3:38 PM Steven Hou <[hidden email]> wrote: > ***** > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to: > http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy > Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting. > ***** > > Thank you everyone for your great insights and advice. I will contact the > manufacture to confirm with them how I should proceed with cleaning the > mirror. > > One thing we have in our lab is "First Contact" polymer cleaning kit from > Newport (https://www.newport.com/f/polymer-optic-cleaning-kits). Would > you think that this would be safe to use for cleaning dichroic mirrors in > general or might this be riskier than directly using solvents like acetone > or methanol? > > Thanks, > Steve > |
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