Thickness measurements of polymer films

[Niklas Lorén]

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Dear all,

We have a mixture of polymers and solvent that forms a film. The solvent is evaporating, which leads to shrinkage of the film. We are performing a xzt-scan using CLSM to minitor the thickness of the film as a function of time. However, the CLSM is overestimating the thickness of the film. Then we compare profilometry and CLSM measurements of the film in the end, it differs a factor 2 - 3 times. This is probably due to refractive index mismatch or other phenomena. I wonder if anyone has looked into strategies (experimental or numerical) about how to correct the thickness obtained using CLSM or if you know about relevant literature to read in the subject.

Thanks in advance!

Best regards
Niklas Lorén

[Jana Nieder-2]

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Hi Niklas,

For thin films < 5um thick - consider our new CLeANFIT  technique – all optical, but it requires FLIM detection.
"CLeANFIT – Contact‐Less Axial Nearfield‐Based Fluorescence Imaging Topography: A Method for 3D Micro‐ and Nanotopography Characterization”,  Ima Ghaeli  Ricardo M. R. Adão  Jana B. Nieder, Advanced Materials Interfaces, 2020, 2000581
First published: 05 October 2020

Contact me if you are interested to learn more about it.

Best regards,
Jana Nieder


***********
Dr. rer. nat. Jana B. Nieder
Group Leader of the Ultrafast Bio- and Nanophotonics Group/
Head of Nanophotonics and Bioimaging Corporate Facilities

INL - International Iberian Nanotechnology Laboratory
An Intergovernmental Organisation (IGO)
Headquarters address:
Av. Mestre José Veiga s/n

4715-330 Braga – Portugal

On 27 Oct 2020, at 11:54, Niklas Lorén <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:

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Dear all,

We have a mixture of polymers and solvent that forms a film. The solvent is evaporating, which leads to shrinkage of the film. We are performing a xzt-scan using CLSM to minitor the thickness of the film as a function of time. However, the CLSM is overestimating the thickness of the film. Then we compare profilometry and CLSM measurements of the film in the end, it differs a factor 2 - 3 times. This is probably due to refractive index mismatch or other phenomena. I wonder if anyone has looked into strategies (experimental or numerical) about how to correct the thickness obtained using CLSM or if you know about relevant literature to read in the subject.

Thanks in advance!

Best regards
Niklas Lorén

[mmodel]

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Dear Niklas,
Confocal scanning is a standard profilometry technique to measure material thickness, by measuring the positions of the strongest reflection. You obviously need to correct for refractive index. For moderate NA, the linear correction formula is accurate enough. You can verify it by measuring the thickness of a coverslip, for example. Of course if your film is very thin, close to the vertical resolution limit, then the blur may become a problem. Or could it be that the transition between liquid and solid polymer is gradual and not as clearly defined as in chemicals that form crystals?

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Niklas Lorén
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 7:55 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Thickness measurements of polymer films

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Dear all,

We have a mixture of polymers and solvent that forms a film. The solvent is evaporating, which leads to shrinkage of the film. We are performing a xzt-scan using CLSM to minitor the thickness of the film as a function of time. However, the CLSM is overestimating the thickness of the film. Then we compare profilometry and CLSM measurements of the film in the end, it differs a factor 2 - 3 times. This is probably due to refractive index mismatch or other phenomena. I wonder if anyone has looked into strategies (experimental or numerical) about how to correct the thickness obtained using CLSM or if you know about relevant literature to read in the subject.

Thanks in advance!

Best regards
Niklas Lorén

[Giang, William]

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Hi Niklas,

Erin Diel, Jeff Lichtman, and Douglas Richardson have a wonderful paper in Nature Protocols about correcting the axial distortion from refractive index mismatch and also provide a very useful ImageJ/Fiji macro for applying the correction as well as determining the optimal z-step size. I have this macro on all of our core computers with a motorized z stage.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41596-020-0360-2

Best,
Will

-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Niklas Lorén
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 7:55 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [External] Thickness measurements of polymer films

*****
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*****

Dear all,

We have a mixture of polymers and solvent that forms a film. The solvent is evaporating, which leads to shrinkage of the film. We are performing a xzt-scan using CLSM to minitor the thickness of the film as a function of time. However, the CLSM is overestimating the thickness of the film. Then we compare profilometry and CLSM measurements of the film in the end, it differs a factor 2 - 3 times. This is probably due to refractive index mismatch or other phenomena. I wonder if anyone has looked into strategies (experimental or numerical) about how to correct the thickness obtained using CLSM or if you know about relevant literature to read in the subject.

Thanks in advance!

Best regards
Niklas Lorén

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[Douglas Richardson]

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Thanks Will, glad to hear it's been useful.  Happy to send the PDF to
anyone who doesn't have access. Just send me an email:
[hidden email]

-Doug

On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 8:14 AM Giang, William <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Hi Niklas,
>
> Erin Diel, Jeff Lichtman, and Douglas Richardson have a wonderful paper in
> Nature Protocols about correcting the axial distortion from refractive
> index mismatch and also provide a very useful ImageJ/Fiji macro for
> applying the correction as well as determining the optimal z-step size. I
> have this macro on all of our core computers with a motorized z stage.
>
> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41596-020-0360-2
>
> Best,
> Will
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Confocal Microscopy List <[hidden email]> On
> Behalf Of Niklas Lorén
> Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 7:55 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [External] Thickness measurements of polymer films
>
> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Dear all,
>
> We have a mixture of polymers and solvent that forms a film. The solvent
> is evaporating, which leads to shrinkage of the film. We are performing a
> xzt-scan using CLSM to minitor the thickness of the film as a function of
> time. However, the CLSM is overestimating the thickness of the film. Then
> we compare profilometry and CLSM measurements of the film in the end, it
> differs a factor 2 - 3 times. This is probably due to refractive index
> mismatch or other phenomena. I wonder if anyone has looked into strategies
> (experimental or numerical) about how to correct the thickness obtained
> using CLSM or if you know about relevant literature to read in the subject.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Best regards
> Niklas Lorén
>
> ________________________________
>
> This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of
> the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged
> information. If the reader of this message is not the intended
> recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
> or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly
> prohibited.
>
> If you have received this message in error, please contact
> the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the
> original message (including attachments).
>