any ideas how lens broke?

[mcammer]

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We have a Zeiss 63X N.A. 1.4 lens that broke.  The top lens element appears to have collapsed into the barrel and the top is no longer retractable.

Pics at https://www.flickr.com/photos/mcammer/14492412879/ and https://www.flickr.com/photos/mcammer/14492418378/

Any idea why this would have happened and if reparable.

Thank you!!


===========================================================================
Michael Cammer, Microscopy Core & Dustin Lab , Skirball Institute, NYU Langone Medical Center
Cell:  914-309-3270   Lab: 212-263-3208
http://ocs.med.nyu.edu/microscopy & http://www.med.nyu.edu/skirball-lab/dustinlab/

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[EricMarino]

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Same happened to my TIRF 100x 1.46 lens. I do not have a clue how it happened. Zeiss charged $1,500 to fix it.


Eric Marino
Senior Imaging Specialist
Program in Cellular and Molecular Medicine
Boston Children's Hospital
200 Longwood Ave
WAB Room 133D
Boston, MA 02115
Lab: 617 713-8885
Cell: 617 913-9647
[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>

On Jul 17, 2014, at 4:27 PM, Cammer, Michael <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:

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We have a Zeiss 63X N.A. 1.4 lens that broke.  The top lens element appears to have collapsed into the barrel and the top is no longer retractable.

Pics at https://www.flickr.com/photos/mcammer/14492412879/ and https://www.flickr.com/photos/mcammer/14492418378/

Any idea why this would have happened and if reparable.

Thank you!!


===========================================================================
Michael Cammer, Microscopy Core & Dustin Lab , Skirball Institute, NYU Langone Medical Center
Cell:  914-309-3270   Lab: 212-263-3208
http://ocs.med.nyu.edu/microscopy & http://www.med.nyu.edu/skirball-lab/dustinlab/

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[Eric Shelden]

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Is the microscope an upright or inverted? I have seen this happen with our
own zeiss 200M inverted microscope. The free space between the top of
the lenses and the underside of the stage is not large. If a chamber is on
the stage that requires focusing up higher than usual with a lens on the
opposite side of the turret, it  is possible for a large lens like the 63X to
make contact with the  underneath of the stage with enough force to
damage it. It may be possible  to set a travel limit that prevents this,
although users might override it to  reach their specimens. Unfortunately,
the cost for repair is probably close  to the cost of a new lens.

[Armstrong, Brian]

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Hi, sorry! I think you can generate more force by moving laterally with the joystick controller. If the objective contacts the stage when moving quickly it may cause this type of damage. This is also easier to do on an inverted stand.  
I was told that a repair like this will cost 50% of the cost of a new lens. I think Zeiss will give you an RMA number and you can send them the lens for quote and repair. At least you do not have to pay anything up front for assessment or repair.
Good luck,  

Brian Armstrong PhD
Associate Research Professor
Director, Light Microscopy Core
Beckman Research Institute
City of Hope
1500 East Duarte Road
Duarte, CA 91010
626-256-4673 x62872


-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Eric Shelden
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2014 1:46 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: any ideas how lens broke?

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Is the microscope an upright or inverted? I have seen this happen with our own zeiss 200M inverted microscope. The free space between the top of the lenses and the underside of the stage is not large. If a chamber is on the stage that requires focusing up higher than usual with a lens on the opposite side of the turret, it  is possible for a large lens like the 63X to make contact with the  underneath of the stage with enough force to damage it. It may be possible  to set a travel limit that prevents this, although users might override it to  reach their specimens. Unfortunately, the cost for repair is probably close  to the cost of a new lens.


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[Julio Vazquez]

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We had a Zeiss 40x/1.3 Oil that we found to be similarly stuck. There was a small dent on the metal surface near the front lens that suggested the someone had hit the lens against the stage (or other) as suggested by Eric. It turned out I was able to remove the little screw on the side of the objective barrel, and by holding the objective up and pressing down quite hard on the front I was able to unstuck it. There is a little notch in the inside barrel that needs to be aligned before putting the screw back. I'm guessing that depending on whether the objective got stuck "in" or "out", you may need to apply pressure differently. The good news is that our objective was able to move in and out again, and it looked optically OK.


Julio Vazquez
Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center
Seattle, WA 98109

http://www.fhcrc.org/en.html





On Jul 17, 2014, at 1:26 PM, Cammer, Michael wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> We have a Zeiss 63X N.A. 1.4 lens that broke.  The top lens element appears to have collapsed into the barrel and the top is no longer retractable.
>
> Pics at https://www.flickr.com/photos/mcammer/14492412879/ and https://www.flickr.com/photos/mcammer/14492418378/
>
> Any idea why this would have happened and if reparable.
>
> Thank you!!
>
>
> ===========================================================================
> Michael Cammer, Microscopy Core & Dustin Lab , Skirball Institute, NYU Langone Medical Center
> Cell:  914-309-3270   Lab: 212-263-3208
> http://ocs.med.nyu.edu/microscopy & http://www.med.nyu.edu/skirball-lab/dustinlab/
>
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[Knecht, David]

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We lost two objectives last week.  We set the limits on our motorized stage so that the objectives could not crash, but failed to realize that you could still make them crash in unusual circumstances.  We had a user doing 96 well plates with a large volume of agarose in the wells so that they had to focus way above normal with a long working distance objective to reach the sample.  That crashed two other objectives in the turret into the stage as they moved around the plate.  We have to now remove all the other objectives when that user is on the microscope.  Dave

On Jul 17, 2014, at 4:33 PM, Marino, Eric <[hidden email]> wrote:

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> *****
>
> Same happened to my TIRF 100x 1.46 lens. I do not have a clue how it happened. Zeiss charged $1,500 to fix it.
>
>
> Eric Marino
> Senior Imaging Specialist
> Program in Cellular and Molecular Medicine
> Boston Children's Hospital
> 200 Longwood Ave
> WAB Room 133D
> Boston, MA 02115
> Lab: 617 713-8885
> Cell: 617 913-9647
> [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
>
> On Jul 17, 2014, at 4:27 PM, Cammer, Michael <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> We have a Zeiss 63X N.A. 1.4 lens that broke.  The top lens element appears to have collapsed into the barrel and the top is no longer retractable.
>
> Pics at https://www.flickr.com/photos/mcammer/14492412879/ and https://www.flickr.com/photos/mcammer/14492418378/
>
> Any idea why this would have happened and if reparable.
>
> Thank you!!
>
>
> ===========================================================================
> Michael Cammer, Microscopy Core & Dustin Lab , Skirball Institute, NYU Langone Medical Center
> Cell:  914-309-3270   Lab: 212-263-3208
> http://ocs.med.nyu.edu/microscopy & http://www.med.nyu.edu/skirball-lab/dustinlab/
>
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Dr. David Knecht
Professor of Molecular and Cell Biology
Core Microscopy Facility Director
University of Connecticut
Storrs, CT 06269
860-486-2200

[Glen MacDonald-2]

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Ouch,
that happened to one of ours on an Axiovert 200M with motorized stage.   The user was imaging glass bottom chambers that required a special holder and a high focus position for  the 63x Water, which was the 2nd lens over on the turret. The oil lens was diagonally aimed up at a ledge protruding down from the underside of the stage.  that ledge creased the nose of the objective when driven in the x-direction, right across the top of the lens and pushed it in. A good slide for teaching is of the PSFs before and after repair.  Zeiss charged about $3000 to repair, and took 6 weeks.  FYI, Olympus also takes 6 weeks for repairs, but are much less costly.  

I’ve rebuilt stage holders so most samples are held within safe focus limits.  
Glen MacDonald
        Core for Communication Research
Virginia Merrill Bloedel Hearing Research Center
        Cellular Morphology Core
Center on Human Development and Disability
Box 357923
University of Washington
Seattle, WA 98195-7923  USA
[phone]
[hidden email]







On Jul 17, 2014, at 1:26 PM, Cammer, Michael <[hidden email]> wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> We have a Zeiss 63X N.A. 1.4 lens that broke.  The top lens element appears to have collapsed into the barrel and the top is no longer retractable.
>
> Pics at https://www.flickr.com/photos/mcammer/14492412879/ and https://www.flickr.com/photos/mcammer/14492418378/
>
> Any idea why this would have happened and if reparable.
>
> Thank you!!
>
>
> ===========================================================================
> Michael Cammer, Microscopy Core & Dustin Lab , Skirball Institute, NYU Langone Medical Center
> Cell:  914-309-3270   Lab: 212-263-3208
> http://ocs.med.nyu.edu/microscopy & http://www.med.nyu.edu/skirball-lab/dustinlab/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
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[Kate Luby-Phelps]

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Motorized stages on inverted stands plus high $$ objectives = bad karma. We have notched
up 3 or 4 in the past ten years including a Nikon 60x TIRF. Painful but difficult to prevent in
a heavily used core facility.

That said, we have once or twice had retractable barrels that got stuck down due to oil build
up. If it's not too bad, we can sometimes get them unstuck by dribbling ethanol down
around the base where the two parts meet. Other times we have had to send them back to
Zeiss. Can't tell if this is your problem from the description.

A new problem we have encountered recently is people stripping the correction collars on
two expensive objectives from Zeiss. We assume a user grabbed the wrong part of the lens
when removing it from the nosepiece or perhaps the set screw somehow came loose.
Anyway, once this happens there is no getting it aligned correctly without having to send it
back to the vendor. The result in one case was a two fold loss in fluorescence intensity,
especially in the far red.

The preventative measure for all these problems is user education. We are considering
implementation of annual re-certification test for all users, including questions about proper
care of objectives.

Kate

[Tina Carvalho]

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We've lost a couple of lenses to users who can't understand why it will
focus with a dry lens but not with an oil immersion lens, and will rack it
back and forth and back and forth (and back and forth) over the edges of
the coverslip before they realize thay have two (or three) coverslips on
their slide. I now have a large print of a picture of a scratched lens
hanging over the confocal, along with the price of replacement.

Aloha,
Tina

****************************************************************************
* Tina (Weatherby) Carvalho               * [hidden email]           *
* Biological Electron Microscope Facility * [phone]                 *
* University of Hawaii at Manoa           * http://www.pbrc.hawaii.edu/bemf*
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[Kurt Thorn]

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On 7/18/2014 2:32 PM, Kate Luby-Phelps wrote:

> *****
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> *****
>
> Motorized stages on inverted stands plus high $$ objectives = bad karma. We have notched
> up 3 or 4 in the past ten years including a Nikon 60x TIRF. Painful but difficult to prevent in
> a heavily used core facility.
>

We now require users to sign out all oil immersion lenses to try and
prevent these kinds of experiences.  We think the problems associated
with keeping the objectives off the scope aren't as bad as the problems
caused by users accidentally damaging these objectives when they're on
the scope.  We still have about one objective damaged each year; if we
can track down the responsible user, we charge them.

Kurt

--
Kurt Thorn
Director, Nikon Imaging Center
http://nic.ucsf.edu/blog/

[Craig Brideau]

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I've had experiences similar to Glen and David's, where an unusual sample
holder or 96 well plate gets the users to smash an out-of-position
objective into the edge of the stage. Typical cost for my Nikon objectives
was about 25% to 40% of new, depending on degree of damage.

Craig


On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 5:15 PM, Kurt Thorn <[hidden email]> wrote:

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> *****
>
> On 7/18/2014 2:32 PM, Kate Luby-Phelps wrote:
>
>> *****
>> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
>> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
>> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
>> *****
>>
>> Motorized stages on inverted stands plus high $$ objectives = bad karma.
>> We have notched
>> up 3 or 4 in the past ten years including a Nikon 60x TIRF. Painful but
>> difficult to prevent in
>> a heavily used core facility.
>>
>>  We now require users to sign out all oil immersion lenses to try and
> prevent these kinds of experiences.  We think the problems associated with
> keeping the objectives off the scope aren't as bad as the problems caused
> by users accidentally damaging these objectives when they're on the scope.
>  We still have about one objective damaged each year; if we can track down
> the responsible user, we charge them.
>
> Kurt
>
> --
> Kurt Thorn
> Director, Nikon Imaging Center
> http://nic.ucsf.edu/blog/
>