corrosion of objective "sealant" paint

[Aurora]

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Hello dear Microscopy world!

Here at the facility we are observing corrosion of the "sealant" paint for the objectives.
Before testing every possible cause factor,  I was wondering if any of you already came across the same issue and could share with me his/her experience. From an online research I could  find no reference.

I am talking about the black/grey/whitish ring that is around the front lens, at the interface with the metal housing.

Our experience:
for water immersion objectives the paint is corroding and coming out in small pieces which get dragged on the lens when the objective lens is wiped.
Observed for both Zeiss objectives and Leica's.

Our background data:
1) as immersion media for our water objectives we use either deionized water, milli Q water, or Zeiss Immersol W 2010.
2) the issue is observed also on a microscope where just deionized water is used (no Immersol)
3) users in the facility are instructed to use special lens paper and gently wipe the objectives when they are done, without adding additional media
4) cleaning of the lenses is performed regularly (on a weekly-biweekly base) by facility staff using hand-made cotton swabs, circular motion and the following solvents according to need: deionized water, isopropanol, high-grade purity ethanol, Zeiss mixture (85 % n-Hexan, 15 % isopropanol). Cotton is always used wet on lenses.


Thanking you in advance,
best greetings to all

Aurora

--
Light Microscopy Facility
Max-Planck-Institute for Developmental Biology
Max-Planck-Ring 5
D-72076 Tuebingen
Germany

Phone:  [phone]
e-mail: [hidden email]

[Davide Accardi-2]

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Dear Aurora,

This is a difficult topic because there are many variables that might influence and it’s very difficult to test them all.
When I was working at the Max Planck Institute in Dresden, we had problems with water dipping lenses used at the light-sheet.
In that case was not the ring around the front lens that was coming off, but the lens coating.

We tried different cleaning strategies and solutions, but nothing helped and until my last working day there the cause of the problem was not really understood.

However, I’m writing to share a suspicion I have.
The lenses where cleaned with microfibre q-tips and my suspicion is that dipping lenses are more sensitive to mechanical friction than other lenses.
So the last recommendation I gave was to use only lens cleaning tissues and, if needed, to apply some pressure with a microfibre tip but always through the lens cleaning tissue.

I cannot find anything wrong in the solutions you are using to clean those lenses, nor in the facility strategies.
However, when you mentioned the cotton swabs, I felt that I needed to share my experience with you.
So I give you the same recommendation:
use only lens cleaning tissues and, if you need to apply some pressure, do it with something soft (a microfibre tip would do) but always through the lens cleaning tissue.

I hope this would help.

Good luck,

D.
--
Davide Accardi, PhD.
Champalimaud ABBE Platform
Advanced BioImaging and BioOptics Experimental Platform
Group Leader

Champalimaud Centre for the Unknown
Av. Brasilia, Doca de Pedroucos
1400-038 Lisbon, Portugal

www.fchampalimaud.org

> On 8. Jan 2018, at 09:53, Aurora Panzera <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Hello dear Microscopy world!
>
> Here at the facility we are observing corrosion of the "sealant" paint for the objectives.
> Before testing every possible cause factor,  I was wondering if any of you already came across the same issue and could share with me his/her experience. From an online research I could  find no reference.
>
> I am talking about the black/grey/whitish ring that is around the front lens, at the interface with the metal housing.
>
> Our experience:
> for water immersion objectives the paint is corroding and coming out in small pieces which get dragged on the lens when the objective lens is wiped.
> Observed for both Zeiss objectives and Leica's.
>
> Our background data:
> 1) as immersion media for our water objectives we use either deionized water, milli Q water, or Zeiss Immersol W 2010.
> 2) the issue is observed also on a microscope where just deionized water is used (no Immersol)
> 3) users in the facility are instructed to use special lens paper and gently wipe the objectives when they are done, without adding additional media
> 4) cleaning of the lenses is performed regularly (on a weekly-biweekly base) by facility staff using hand-made cotton swabs, circular motion and the following solvents according to need: deionized water, isopropanol, high-grade purity ethanol, Zeiss mixture (85 % n-Hexan, 15 % isopropanol). Cotton is always used wet on lenses.
>
>
> Thanking you in advance,
> best greetings to all
>
> Aurora
>
> --
> Light Microscopy Facility
> Max-Planck-Institute for Developmental Biology
> Max-Planck-Ring 5
> D-72076 Tuebingen
> Germany
>
> Phone:  [phone]
> e-mail: [hidden email]

[mcammer]

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This is a repeat post fro a few years ago.  Please take a look at our solution.
First put in sealed box with molecular sieves to dry out.
Then sealed with 2 ton epoxy.  
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mcammer/14926899175/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mcammer/14926538412/
Not neat, but still holding.

Michael Cammer, Sr Research Scientist, DART Microscopy Laboratory
NYU Langone Health, 540 First Avenue, SK2 Microscopy Suite, New York, NY  10016
C: 914-309-3270  [hidden email]  http://nyulmc.org/micros  http://microscopynotes.com/ 


-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Davide Accardi
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2018 3:24 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: corrosion of objective "sealant" paint

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Post images on https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.imgur.com&d=DwIFaQ&c=j5oPpO0eBH1iio48DtsedbOBGmuw5jHLjgvtN2r4ehE&r=oU_05LztNstAydlbm5L5GDu_vAdjXk3frDLx_CqKkuo&m=wiNtMRAtvn3txB1gr-Q97dEdnfgwoYIHnG_Ccb1cH8I&s=1CN9E5n4lWIYEZgTBHiSGzbi-L4S3vVghztqXgwHAD0&e= and include the link in your posting.
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Dear Aurora,

This is a difficult topic because there are many variables that might influence and it’s very difficult to test them all.
When I was working at the Max Planck Institute in Dresden, we had problems with water dipping lenses used at the light-sheet.
In that case was not the ring around the front lens that was coming off, but the lens coating.

We tried different cleaning strategies and solutions, but nothing helped and until my last working day there the cause of the problem was not really understood.

However, I’m writing to share a suspicion I have.
The lenses where cleaned with microfibre q-tips and my suspicion is that dipping lenses are more sensitive to mechanical friction than other lenses.
So the last recommendation I gave was to use only lens cleaning tissues and, if needed, to apply some pressure with a microfibre tip but always through the lens cleaning tissue.

I cannot find anything wrong in the solutions you are using to clean those lenses, nor in the facility strategies.
However, when you mentioned the cotton swabs, I felt that I needed to share my experience with you.
So I give you the same recommendation:
use only lens cleaning tissues and, if you need to apply some pressure, do it with something soft (a microfibre tip would do) but always through the lens cleaning tissue.

I hope this would help.

Good luck,

D.
--
Davide Accardi, PhD.
Champalimaud ABBE Platform
Advanced BioImaging and BioOptics Experimental Platform Group Leader

Champalimaud Centre for the Unknown
Av. Brasilia, Doca de Pedroucos
1400-038 Lisbon, Portugal

www.fchampalimaud.org

> On 8. Jan 2018, at 09:53, Aurora Panzera <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.umn.edu_cgi-
> 2Dbin_wa-3FA0-3Dconfocalmicroscopy&d=DwIFaQ&c=j5oPpO0eBH1iio48DtsedbOB
> Gmuw5jHLjgvtN2r4ehE&r=oU_05LztNstAydlbm5L5GDu_vAdjXk3frDLx_CqKkuo&m=wi
> NtMRAtvn3txB1gr-Q97dEdnfgwoYIHnG_Ccb1cH8I&s=dEUbOF-sKBp2Z5aV1HNyYjbmww
> ef74D7tcS-edGLlJo&e= Post images on
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.imgur.com&d=DwIFaQ&c=j5oPpO0eBH1iio48DtsedbOBGmuw5jHLjgvtN2r4ehE&r=oU_05LztNstAydlbm5L5GDu_vAdjXk3frDLx_CqKkuo&m=wiNtMRAtvn3txB1gr-Q97dEdnfgwoYIHnG_Ccb1cH8I&s=1CN9E5n4lWIYEZgTBHiSGzbi-L4S3vVghztqXgwHAD0&e= and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Hello dear Microscopy world!
>
> Here at the facility we are observing corrosion of the "sealant" paint for the objectives.
> Before testing every possible cause factor,  I was wondering if any of you already came across the same issue and could share with me his/her experience. From an online research I could  find no reference.
>
> I am talking about the black/grey/whitish ring that is around the front lens, at the interface with the metal housing.
>
> Our experience:
> for water immersion objectives the paint is corroding and coming out in small pieces which get dragged on the lens when the objective lens is wiped.
> Observed for both Zeiss objectives and Leica's.
>
> Our background data:
> 1) as immersion media for our water objectives we use either deionized water, milli Q water, or Zeiss Immersol W 2010.
> 2) the issue is observed also on a microscope where just deionized
> water is used (no Immersol)
> 3) users in the facility are instructed to use special lens paper and
> gently wipe the objectives when they are done, without adding
> additional media
> 4) cleaning of the lenses is performed regularly (on a weekly-biweekly base) by facility staff using hand-made cotton swabs, circular motion and the following solvents according to need: deionized water, isopropanol, high-grade purity ethanol, Zeiss mixture (85 % n-Hexan, 15 % isopropanol). Cotton is always used wet on lenses.
>
>
> Thanking you in advance,
> best greetings to all
>
> Aurora
>
> --
> Light Microscopy Facility
> Max-Planck-Institute for Developmental Biology Max-Planck-Ring 5
> D-72076 Tuebingen
> Germany
>
> Phone:  [phone]
> e-mail: [hidden email]

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=================================

[Steffen Dietzel]

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Dear Listers,

for the full-width-half-maximum (FWHM) of a fluorescent point source in
the non-confocal case, the formula
FWHM=0.51*lambda/NA is given in the literature
(Amos, B., et al. (2012). Confocal Microscopy. Handbook of Comprehensive
Biophysics, Elsevier.
Wilson, T. (2011). "Resolution and optical sectioning in the confocal
microscope." J Microsc 244(2): 113-121.)


However, for recording actual PSFs of high NA objectives we prefer using
80 nm gold beads in reflection mode instead of fluorescent beads,
because they do not bleach. It still would be nice to compare actual
with theoretical values, though.

But instead of fluorescence, we use reflection.  Of a coherent laser
beam. On a curved surface.

With open pinhole we do get values which are in the range of the output
of the formula given above. But is this formula even applicable? We
didn't find a respective formula for gold beads or reflection in general
in the literature and with the underlying optics theory I am totally out
of my depth.

Thoughts, anybody? Possibly even some citable literature?

Best

Steffen


--
------------------------------------------------------------
Steffen Dietzel, PD Dr. rer. nat
Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München
Biomedical Center (BMC)
Head of the Core Facility Bioimaging

Großhaderner Straße 9
D-82152 Planegg-Martinsried
Germany

http://www.bioimaging.bmc.med.uni-muenchen.de

[Mark Cannell-2]

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Hi Stefan

I think Borne and Wolf 1970 has the answer you are looking for around page 419. Here is the complete book scanned in:

https://ia800405.us.archive.org/24/items/PrinciplesOfOptics/BornWolf-PrinciplesOfOptics.pdf

HTH

Mark B. Cannell. Ph.D. FRSNZ FISHR
Department of Physiology, Pharmacology & Neuroscience
School of Medical Sciences
University Walk
Bristol BS8 1TD
 
[hidden email]
 
 

On 11/01/18, 3:20 PM, "Confocal Microscopy List on behalf of Steffen Dietzel" <[hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]> wrote:

    *****
    To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
    http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
    Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
    *****
   
    Dear Listers,
   
    for the full-width-half-maximum (FWHM) of a fluorescent point source in
    the non-confocal case, the formula
    FWHM=0.51*lambda/NA is given in the literature
    (Amos, B., et al. (2012). Confocal Microscopy. Handbook of Comprehensive
    Biophysics, Elsevier.
    Wilson, T. (2011). "Resolution and optical sectioning in the confocal
    microscope." J Microsc 244(2): 113-121.)
   
   
    However, for recording actual PSFs of high NA objectives we prefer using
    80 nm gold beads in reflection mode instead of fluorescent beads,
    because they do not bleach. It still would be nice to compare actual
    with theoretical values, though.
   
    But instead of fluorescence, we use reflection.  Of a coherent laser
    beam. On a curved surface.
   
    With open pinhole we do get values which are in the range of the output
    of the formula given above. But is this formula even applicable? We
    didn't find a respective formula for gold beads or reflection in general
    in the literature and with the underlying optics theory I am totally out
    of my depth.
   
    Thoughts, anybody? Possibly even some citable literature?
   
    Best
   
    Steffen
   
   
    --
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    Steffen Dietzel, PD Dr. rer. nat
    Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München
    Biomedical Center (BMC)
    Head of the Core Facility Bioimaging
   
    Großhaderner Straße 9
    D-82152 Planegg-Martinsried
    Germany
   
    http://www.bioimaging.bmc.med.uni-muenchen.de
   

[Steffen Dietzel]

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Sorry everybody for the wrong subject in the original mail, I had some
trouble with my mail client.

Mark, I can see the paragraphs on incoherent and coherent in that book,
but I am not sure I can extract the information I would need.

For the incoherent case (self-luminous) the forumula 0.61*lambda/NA is
given for the distance between two point objects, which is usually
considered to be the Rayleigh criterion.

For illumination with coherent light, the formula 0.77*lambda/NA is
given. So the resolution is worse in this case.

But can I translate that directly to the FHWM of the gold bead, meaning
this should be worse by a factor 0.77/0.66 = 0.167? My gut feeling is
that it is not that easy

Steffen


Am 11.01.2018 um 17:16 schrieb Mark Cannell:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Hi Stefan
>
> I think Borne and Wolf 1970 has the answer you are looking for around page 419. Here is the complete book scanned in:
>
> https://ia800405.us.archive.org/24/items/PrinciplesOfOptics/BornWolf-PrinciplesOfOptics.pdf
>
> HTH
>
> Mark B. Cannell. Ph.D. FRSNZ FISHR
> Department of Physiology, Pharmacology & Neuroscience
> School of Medical Sciences
> University Walk
> Bristol BS8 1TD
>  
> [hidden email]
>  
>  
>
> On 11/01/18, 3:20 PM, "Confocal Microscopy List on behalf of Steffen Dietzel" <[hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>      *****
>      To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
>      http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
>      Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
>      *****
>      
>      Dear Listers,
>      
>      for the full-width-half-maximum (FWHM) of a fluorescent point source in
>      the non-confocal case, the formula
>      FWHM=0.51*lambda/NA is given in the literature
>      (Amos, B., et al. (2012). Confocal Microscopy. Handbook of Comprehensive
>      Biophysics, Elsevier.
>      Wilson, T. (2011). "Resolution and optical sectioning in the confocal
>      microscope." J Microsc 244(2): 113-121.)
>      
>      
>      However, for recording actual PSFs of high NA objectives we prefer using
>      80 nm gold beads in reflection mode instead of fluorescent beads,
>      because they do not bleach. It still would be nice to compare actual
>      with theoretical values, though.
>      
>      But instead of fluorescence, we use reflection.  Of a coherent laser
>      beam. On a curved surface.
>      
>      With open pinhole we do get values which are in the range of the output
>      of the formula given above. But is this formula even applicable? We
>      didn't find a respective formula for gold beads or reflection in general
>      in the literature and with the underlying optics theory I am totally out
>      of my depth.
>      
>      Thoughts, anybody? Possibly even some citable literature?
>      
>      Best
>      
>      Steffen
>      
>      
>      --
>      ------------------------------------------------------------
>      Steffen Dietzel, PD Dr. rer. nat
>      Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München
>      Biomedical Center (BMC)
>      Head of the Core Facility Bioimaging
>      
>      Großhaderner Straße 9
>      D-82152 Planegg-Martinsried
>      Germany
>      
>      http://www.bioimaging.bmc.med.uni-muenchen.de
>      
>

--
-- ----------------------------------------------------------

Steffen Dietzel, PD Dr. rer. nat.
Head of the Core Facility Bioimaging at the Biomedical Center
Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München
Walter-Brendel-Zentrum für Experimentelle Medizin

Address:
Biomedical Center
Großhaderner Straße 9
D-82152 Planegg-Martinsried

Phone: [phone]
skype: steffendietzel
e-mail: [hidden email]
fax-to-e-mail: +49/89/2180-9971518
http://www.bioimaging.bmc.med.uni-muenchen.de


--
------------------------------------------------------------
Steffen Dietzel, PD Dr. rer. nat
Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München
Biomedical Center (BMC)
Head of the Core Facility Bioimaging

Großhaderner Straße 9
D-82152 Planegg-Martinsried
Germany

http://www.bioimaging.bmc.med.uni-muenchen.de