cylindrical lenses with 10m focal length (1in diameter)

[Zulin Yu]

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Dear All,
   We are planning to add cylindrical lenses with 10m focal length to our
microscopy to do 3D STORM. Unfortunately, I am having problem to find any
round cylindrical lens (1 inch) with such a long FL. As far as I know, CVI is the
only company making 10 m cylindrical lens, but they are not willing/able to cut
their lenses to round shape (1 inch). It will be really helpful if anyone could tell me
which company can make these lenses. Thanks a lot, Zulin

[Barbara Foster]

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Have you tried Mitotoyu?

Best regards,
Barbara Foster

At 10:48 PM 4/22/2014, you wrote:

>*****
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>http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
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>*****
>
>Dear All,
>    We are planning to add cylindrical lenses with 10m focal length to our
>microscopy to do 3D STORM. Unfortunately, I am having problem to find any
>round cylindrical lens (1 inch) with such a long FL. As far as I
>know, CVI is the
>only company making 10 m cylindrical lens, but they are not
>willing/able to cut
>their lenses to round shape (1 inch). It will be really helpful if
>anyone could tell me
>which company can make these lenses. Thanks a lot, Zulin

[John Oreopoulos]

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Zulin,

I recall going down this path before. I looked very hard to find other companies that could make long focal length cylindrical lenses, but I think CVI IS the only company that makes them with a 10m focal length and this only comes in a square 2" format.

If you really need it to be 1" diameter, you could buy the lens and then have another company core it down to a 1" diameter, but doing this as a one-off will be expensive. Light Machinery (no commercial interest) would be able to do this kind of operation.

The alternative approach to your situation is to change the location that the cylindrical lens inserts into the optical path. Putting the lens in infinity space of the microscope requires long focal lengths like 10m. However, you could also place the lens near the camera (as is done in most commercial systems) in which case the required focal length of the cylindrical lens drops down to 500mm to 1000mm range to yield the right amount of astigmatism over an ~1-2um focus change of the objective lens (the relationship between the cylindrical lens focal length and usable focus range depends on the objective magnification and NA). There are many optics companies that offer shorter focal length cylindrical lenses like these.

Cheers,

John Oreopoulos
Staff Scientist
Spectral Applied Research
A Division of Andor Technology
Richmond Hill, Ontario, Canada
www.spectral.ca

> On Apr 22, 2014, at 11:40 PM, Zulin Yu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Dear All,
>   We are planning to add cylindrical lenses with 10m focal length to our
> microscopy to do 3D STORM. Unfortunately, I am having problem to find any
> round cylindrical lens (1 inch) with such a long FL. As far as I know, CVI is the
> only company making 10 m cylindrical lens, but they are not willing/able to cut
> their lenses to round shape (1 inch). It will be really helpful if anyone could tell me
> which company can make these lenses. Thanks a lot, Zulin

[Dan Focht]

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Zulin

What shape are you able to acquire the 1m Cyl lens.
Tell me more about what is available and I will tell you what we can do with it.

Dan





On Apr 22, 2014, at 11:40 PM, Zulin Yu wrote:

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Dear All,
  We are planning to add cylindrical lenses with 10m focal length to our
microscopy to do 3D STORM. Unfortunately, I am having problem to find any
round cylindrical lens (1 inch) with such a long FL. As far as I know, CVI is the
only company making 10 m cylindrical lens, but they are not willing/able to cut
their lenses to round shape (1 inch). It will be really helpful if anyone could tell me
which company can make these lenses. Thanks a lot, Zulin


Dan Focht
Bioptechs, Inc.
3560 Beck Rd.
Butler, PA 16002
www.bioptechs.com
P: [phone]
F: [phone]
[hidden email]

[Craig Brideau]

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With a focal length that long you are approaching a flat window. One thing
you could try is a relay pair, so get two lenses and form a 1:1 telescope,
then pull them slightly apart to create a very gentle beam convergence.

Craig Brideau


On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 4:39 AM, John Oreopoulos <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Zulin,
>
> I recall going down this path before. I looked very hard to find other
> companies that could make long focal length cylindrical lenses, but I think
> CVI IS the only company that makes them with a 10m focal length and this
> only comes in a square 2" format.
>
> If you really need it to be 1" diameter, you could buy the lens and then
> have another company core it down to a 1" diameter, but doing this as a
> one-off will be expensive. Light Machinery (no commercial interest) would
> be able to do this kind of operation.
>
> The alternative approach to your situation is to change the location that
> the cylindrical lens inserts into the optical path. Putting the lens in
> infinity space of the microscope requires long focal lengths like 10m.
> However, you could also place the lens near the camera (as is done in most
> commercial systems) in which case the required focal length of the
> cylindrical lens drops down to 500mm to 1000mm range to yield the right
> amount of astigmatism over an ~1-2um focus change of the objective lens
> (the relationship between the cylindrical lens focal length and usable
> focus range depends on the objective magnification and NA). There are many
> optics companies that offer shorter focal length cylindrical lenses like
> these.
>
> Cheers,
>
> John Oreopoulos
> Staff Scientist
> Spectral Applied Research
> A Division of Andor Technology
> Richmond Hill, Ontario, Canada
> www.spectral.ca
>
> > On Apr 22, 2014, at 11:40 PM, Zulin Yu <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > *****
> > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> > http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> > Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your
> posting.
> > *****
> >
> > Dear All,
> >   We are planning to add cylindrical lenses with 10m focal length to our
> > microscopy to do 3D STORM. Unfortunately, I am having problem to find any
> > round cylindrical lens (1 inch) with such a long FL. As far as I know,
> CVI is the
> > only company making 10 m cylindrical lens, but they are not willing/able
> to cut
> > their lenses to round shape (1 inch). It will be really helpful if
> anyone could tell me
> > which company can make these lenses. Thanks a lot, Zulin
>

[Andrew York]

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 This is off-topic, but what other methods have people used to introduce
controlled astigmatism? I've used a moderate focal-length cylindrical lens
directly in front of the camera for 3D localization, but our field of view
wasn't very big, and I never carefully checked that the astigmatism was
uniform across a large FOV.

 Would a flat, tilted piece of glass in a non-infinity space be a better
way to achieve the same goal? If it works, you could tune the magnitude of
astigmatism by adjusting the tilt angle, and I'm guessing the astigmatism
would be more uniform across the field. Is this a bad idea, an old idea, or
something worth trying?


On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Dan Focht <[hidden email]> wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Zulin
>
> What shape are you able to acquire the 1m Cyl lens.
> Tell me more about what is available and I will tell you what we can do
> with it.
>
> Dan
>
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 22, 2014, at 11:40 PM, Zulin Yu wrote:
>
> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Dear All,
>   We are planning to add cylindrical lenses with 10m focal length to our
> microscopy to do 3D STORM. Unfortunately, I am having problem to find any
> round cylindrical lens (1 inch) with such a long FL. As far as I know, CVI
> is the
> only company making 10 m cylindrical lens, but they are not willing/able
> to cut
> their lenses to round shape (1 inch). It will be really helpful if anyone
> could tell me
> which company can make these lenses. Thanks a lot, Zulin
>
>
> Dan Focht
> Bioptechs, Inc.
> 3560 Beck Rd.
> Butler, PA 16002
> www.bioptechs.com
> P: [phone]
> F: [phone]
> [hidden email]
>

[Craig Brideau]

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*****

This is rather like an anamorphic prism pair. The advantage to the method
is you don't focus the light, just offset it to introduce the astigmatism.
The disadvantage is that you can have significant wavelength-dependent
variability since it is a prism.

Craig Brideau


On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 1:25 PM, Andrew York <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
>  This is off-topic, but what other methods have people used to introduce
> controlled astigmatism? I've used a moderate focal-length cylindrical lens
> directly in front of the camera for 3D localization, but our field of view
> wasn't very big, and I never carefully checked that the astigmatism was
> uniform across a large FOV.
>
>  Would a flat, tilted piece of glass in a non-infinity space be a better
> way to achieve the same goal? If it works, you could tune the magnitude of
> astigmatism by adjusting the tilt angle, and I'm guessing the astigmatism
> would be more uniform across the field. Is this a bad idea, an old idea, or
> something worth trying?
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Dan Focht <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > *****
> > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> > http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> > Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your
> posting.
> > *****
> >
> > Zulin
> >
> > What shape are you able to acquire the 1m Cyl lens.
> > Tell me more about what is available and I will tell you what we can do
> > with it.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Apr 22, 2014, at 11:40 PM, Zulin Yu wrote:
> >
> > *****
> > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> > http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> > Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your
> posting.
> > *****
> >
> > Dear All,
> >   We are planning to add cylindrical lenses with 10m focal length to our
> > microscopy to do 3D STORM. Unfortunately, I am having problem to find any
> > round cylindrical lens (1 inch) with such a long FL. As far as I know,
> CVI
> > is the
> > only company making 10 m cylindrical lens, but they are not willing/able
> > to cut
> > their lenses to round shape (1 inch). It will be really helpful if anyone
> > could tell me
> > which company can make these lenses. Thanks a lot, Zulin
> >
> >
> > Dan Focht
> > Bioptechs, Inc.
> > 3560 Beck Rd.
> > Butler, PA 16002
> > www.bioptechs.com
> > P: [phone]
> > F: [phone]
> > [hidden email]
> >
>

[Philippe clemenceau]

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*****

COMMERCIAL ANSWER !!

Hi Zulin,

This might be way more than what you originally thought but I wanted to let
you know that our company offers a adaptive optics unit called MICAO that
actually replaces the cylindrical lens with a deformable mirror and plugs
directly in your microscope between your camera and camera port.

The advantages are several :

1) With the deformable mirror , you can adjust electronically the amount of
astigmatism you need.
2) with a DM, you can also induce a pure astigmatism, that means no other
aberration such as spherical is added
3) there is no dispersion/chromaticity
4) you can correct aberrations of your microscope and increase the amount of
light in your PSF significantly which improves your X Y Z localization
precision
4) you can also correct depth induced aberrations to image deep. We have for
example demonstrated PALM or STORM imaging at 50 microns recently.
 
For more information, I invite you to go to
http://www.imagine-optic.com/MicAO/index.php
You will find a direct comparison with the cylindrical lens approach.


Kind regards,

Philippe Clémenceau, Division Manager, MS in Optical Science

Imagine Optic Inc./Axiom Optics
Ph:[phone]
Cell: + 1 [phone]
1 Broadway, 14th floor
Fax: [phone]
Cambridge,  MA 02142
www.axiomoptics.com

Metrology, Adaptive Optics, Scientific Imaging, Laser Measurements





-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Zulin Yu
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 11:41 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: cylindrical lenses with 10m focal length (1in diameter)

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Dear All,
   We are planning to add cylindrical lenses with 10m focal length to our
microscopy to do 3D STORM. Unfortunately, I am having problem to find any
round cylindrical lens (1 inch) with such a long FL. As far as I know, CVI
is the only company making 10 m cylindrical lens, but they are not
willing/able to cut their lenses to round shape (1 inch). It will be really
helpful if anyone could tell me which company can make these lenses. Thanks
a lot, Zulin

[Zulin Yu]

*****
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*****

Carig, thanks so much for your suggestions, unfortunately, we don't have
enough space to work at our microscopy. Adding a relay pair will be very
challenge. Zulin

On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 11:44:50 -0600, Craig Brideau
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>*****
>To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
>http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
>Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
>*****
>
>With a focal length that long you are approaching a flat window. One thing
>you could try is a relay pair, so get two lenses and form a 1:1 telescope,
>then pull them slightly apart to create a very gentle beam convergence.
>
>Craig Brideau
>
>
>On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 4:39 AM, John Oreopoulos <
>[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> *****
>> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
>> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
>> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
>> *****
>>
>> Zulin,
>>
>> I recall going down this path before. I looked very hard to find other
>> companies that could make long focal length cylindrical lenses, but I think
>> CVI IS the only company that makes them with a 10m focal length and this
>> only comes in a square 2" format.
>>
>> If you really need it to be 1" diameter, you could buy the lens and then
>> have another company core it down to a 1" diameter, but doing this as a
>> one-off will be expensive. Light Machinery (no commercial interest) would
>> be able to do this kind of operation.
>>
>> The alternative approach to your situation is to change the location that
>> the cylindrical lens inserts into the optical path. Putting the lens in
>> infinity space of the microscope requires long focal lengths like 10m.
>> However, you could also place the lens near the camera (as is done in most
>> commercial systems) in which case the required focal length of the
>> cylindrical lens drops down to 500mm to 1000mm range to yield the right
>> amount of astigmatism over an ~1-2um focus change of the objective lens
>> (the relationship between the cylindrical lens focal length and usable
>> focus range depends on the objective magnification and NA). There are

many

>> optics companies that offer shorter focal length cylindrical lenses like
>> these.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> John Oreopoulos
>> Staff Scientist
>> Spectral Applied Research
>> A Division of Andor Technology
>> Richmond Hill, Ontario, Canada
>> www.spectral.ca
>>
>> > On Apr 22, 2014, at 11:40 PM, Zulin Yu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > *****
>> > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
>> > http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
>> > Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your
>> posting.
>> > *****
>> >
>> > Dear All,
>> >   We are planning to add cylindrical lenses with 10m focal length to our
>> > microscopy to do 3D STORM. Unfortunately, I am having problem to find

any
>> > round cylindrical lens (1 inch) with such a long FL. As far as I know,
>> CVI is the
>> > only company making 10 m cylindrical lens, but they are not willing/able
>> to cut
>> > their lenses to round shape (1 inch). It will be really helpful if
>> anyone could tell me
>> > which company can make these lenses. Thanks a lot, Zulin
>>

[Hongzhou Ma]

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Zulin,

Check out this two lens from Thorlabs:
http://www.thorlabs.com/thorproduct.cfm?partnumber=LJ1516RM-A

http://www.thorlabs.com/thorproduct.cfm?partnumber=LK1002RM-A

Both are 1" round Cylindrical lens.  One has a focal length of  f =1000 mm
and the other f = -1000 mm.  Separate them by 96 mm and you will get
effectively f = 10000mm.

Hope that help.

Regards,

Hongzhou



On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 11:40 PM, Zulin Yu <[hidden email]> wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Dear All,
>    We are planning to add cylindrical lenses with 10m focal length to our
> microscopy to do 3D STORM. Unfortunately, I am having problem to find any
> round cylindrical lens (1 inch) with such a long FL. As far as I know, CVI
> is the
> only company making 10 m cylindrical lens, but they are not willing/able
> to cut
> their lenses to round shape (1 inch). It will be really helpful if anyone
> could tell me
> which company can make these lenses. Thanks a lot, Zulin
>

[Zdenek Svindrych]

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Hi Andrew,



the camera-space numerical aperture is pretty low, about 0.06 (assuming
field number of 22 mm and tube lens focal length 180 mm). It's even less for
smaller detectors... I don't think the low power lens could cause some
aberrations, the microscope objective itself is the critical part.




For the same reason a flat piece of glass would just offset the image; the
aberrations (not a pure astigmatism, in general) become important at much
higher NA's.




You can try tilting a low power spherical singlet (plano-convex). It works
well with diverging laser beam (NA 0.01), but I did not try some raytracing
to see the exact behaviour in infinity space or in the converging beam just
in front of the camera :-).




Of course translating a cylindrical lens closer to the camera reduces the
astigmatism. It depends, what's easier for you to do mechanically - tilt a
lens or shift it along it's axis...




Zdenek







---------- Původní zpráva ----------
Od: Andrew York <[hidden email]>
Komu: [hidden email]
Datum: 23. 4. 2014 23:20:49
Předmět: Re: cylindrical lenses with 10m focal length (1in diameter)

"*****
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This is off-topic, but what other methods have people used to introduce
controlled astigmatism? I've used a moderate focal-length cylindrical lens
directly in front of the camera for 3D localization, but our field of view
wasn't very big, and I never carefully checked that the astigmatism was
uniform across a large FOV.

Would a flat, tilted piece of glass in a non-infinity space be a better
way to achieve the same goal? If it works, you could tune the magnitude of
astigmatism by adjusting the tilt angle, and I'm guessing the astigmatism
would be more uniform across the field. Is this a bad idea, an old idea, or
something worth trying?


On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Dan Focht <[hidden email]> wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Zulin
>
> What shape are you able to acquire the 1m Cyl lens.
> Tell me more about what is available and I will tell you what we can do
> with it.
>
> Dan
>
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 22, 2014, at 11:40 PM, Zulin Yu wrote:
>
> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Dear All,
> We are planning to add cylindrical lenses with 10m focal length to our
> microscopy to do 3D STORM. Unfortunately, I am having problem to find any
> round cylindrical lens (1 inch) with such a long FL. As far as I know, CVI
> is the
> only company making 10 m cylindrical lens, but they are not willing/able
> to cut
> their lenses to round shape (1 inch). It will be really helpful if anyone
> could tell me
> which company can make these lenses. Thanks a lot, Zulin
>
>
> Dan Focht
> Bioptechs, Inc.
> 3560 Beck Rd.
> Butler, PA 16002
> www.bioptechs.com
> P: [phone]
> F: [phone]
> [hidden email]
>"

[David Baddeley]

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A trick we've used is to take a +ve and a -ve cylindrical lens (you can buy these with ~ 1m focal lengths from thorlabs - optometrists trial lenses are an alternative source and are available down to .125 diopter [8m], although they don't tend to be coated) and rotate them against each other to get a variable amount of astigmatism. Works reasonably well, if a little fiddly to align and having more optical surfaces than we'd ideally like.  

cheers,
David

On Friday, 25 April 2014 5:16 AM, Zdenek Svindrych <[hidden email]> wrote:
 
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Hi Andrew,



the camera-space numerical aperture is pretty low, about 0.06 (assuming
field number of 22 mm and tube lens focal length 180 mm). It's even less for
smaller detectors... I don't think the low power lens could cause some
aberrations, the microscope objective itself is the critical part.




For the same reason a flat piece of glass would just offset the image; the
aberrations (not a pure astigmatism, in general) become important at much
higher NA's.




You can try tilting a low power spherical singlet (plano-convex). It works
well with diverging laser beam (NA 0.01), but I did not try some raytracing
to see the exact behaviour in infinity space or in the converging beam just
in front of the camera :-).




Of course translating a cylindrical lens closer to the camera reduces the
astigmatism. It depends, what's easier for you to do mechanically - tilt a
lens or shift it along it's axis...




Zdenek







---------- Původní zpráva ----------
Od: Andrew York <[hidden email]>
Komu: [hidden email]
Datum: 23. 4. 2014 23:20:49
Předmět: Re: cylindrical lenses with 10m focal length (1in diameter)

"*****
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*****

This is off-topic, but what other methods have people used to introduce
controlled astigmatism? I've used a moderate focal-length cylindrical lens
directly in front of the camera for 3D localization, but our field of view
wasn't very big, and I never carefully checked that the astigmatism was
uniform across a large FOV.

Would a flat, tilted piece of glass in a non-infinity space be a better
way to achieve the same goal? If it works, you could tune the magnitude of
astigmatism by adjusting the tilt angle, and I'm guessing the astigmatism
would be more uniform across the field. Is this a bad idea, an old idea, or
something worth trying?


On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Dan Focht <[hidden email]> wrote:

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>
> Zulin
>
> What shape are you able to acquire the 1m Cyl lens.
> Tell me more about what is available and I will tell you what we can do
> with it.
>
> Dan
>
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 22, 2014, at 11:40 PM, Zulin Yu wrote:
>
> *****
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> *****
>
> Dear All,
> We are planning to add cylindrical lenses with 10m focal length to our
> microscopy to do 3D STORM. Unfortunately, I am having problem to find any
> round cylindrical lens (1 inch) with such a long FL. As far as I know, CVI
> is the
> only company making 10 m cylindrical lens, but they are not willing/able
> to cut
> their lenses to round shape (1 inch). It will be really helpful if anyone
> could tell me
> which company can make these lenses. Thanks a lot, Zulin
>
>
> Dan Focht
> Bioptechs, Inc.
> 3560 Beck Rd.
> Butler, PA 16002
> www.bioptechs.com
> P: [phone]
> F: [phone]
> [hidden email]
>"