inter-manufacturer objective compatibility

[Needham, Maurice]

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Hi Everyone,

We have an Olympus two-photon system that we would like to use a Nikon 16X lens (CFI LWD 16XW, NA 0.8, WD 3mm) with.  We realize that the beam expander on the Olympus will not compensate for this lens but wondered if anyone has experience with “fooling” the software to allow compensation when using non-Olympus lenses.  Also, we would appreciate comments on the utility of this lens for two-photon imaging as we also have a custom system that won’t have the beam expander problem.

In addition, does anyone know of a supplier or accurate method of fabricating adaptors to allow use of objective lens between different manufacturer's scopes. Different objective screw thread is the main issue.

Thanks for your help,

Maurice

[Jens]

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Hi Maurice,

Olympus objectives have a RMS thread, while Nikon uses M25. You can get adapters at Thorlabs (no commercial interest).
Also the parfocal distance is different which might result in a problem with your z-drive.
This is a good summary: http://www.microscopyu.com/articles/optics/cfintro.html (no commercial interest).
Not sure what you mean with beam expander. Maybe you mean tube lens?
The tube lens focal length for Nikon is 200 mm while Olympus uses 180 mm. But that should not be a big problem.
Both companies do their optical corrections in the objective and not the tube lens, I believe. So mixing Leica and Zeiss with the "Japanese" manufacturers might be a bigger problem. Maybe someone on the list can confirm?

Hope that helps,

Jens

> On Nov 26, 2014, at 1:23 PM, Needham, Maurice <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> We have an Olympus two-photon system that we would like to use a Nikon 16X lens (CFI LWD 16XW, NA 0.8, WD 3mm) with.  We realize that the beam expander on the Olympus will not compensate for this lens but wondered if anyone has experience with “fooling” the software to allow compensation when using non-Olympus lenses.  Also, we would appreciate comments on the utility of this lens for two-photon imaging as we also have a custom system that won’t have the beam expander problem.
>
> In addition, does anyone know of a supplier or accurate method of fabricating adaptors to allow use of objective lens between different manufacturer's scopes. Different objective screw thread is the main issue.
>
> Thanks for your help,
>
> Maurice

[Michael Giacomelli]

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Hi Maurice,

Usually if both objectives are sold separately from the microscope system,
you can interchange them.  If they are sold only as part of a system, they
often depend on customized tube lenses to get best performance (although
sometimes they still work well).

However, besides different thread lengths, be aware that different
objectives, even with the same magnification, may have very different back
focal plane locations.  Before you swap the objectives, request the back
focal plane location for the old objective and the new from the
manufacturers and figure out if you can mechanically make it work in your
system (that is, the new objective won't have its back focal plane such
that its threading would be in the middle of your dichroic).

Assuming you can make it work, thorlabs is great for adapters.

Mike



On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 1:23 PM, Needham, Maurice <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> We have an Olympus two-photon system that we would like to use a Nikon 16X
> lens (CFI LWD 16XW, NA 0.8, WD 3mm) with.  We realize that the beam
> expander on the Olympus will not compensate for this lens but wondered if
> anyone has experience with “fooling” the software to allow compensation
> when using non-Olympus lenses.  Also, we would appreciate comments on the
> utility of this lens for two-photon imaging as we also have a custom system
> that won’t have the beam expander problem.
>
> In addition, does anyone know of a supplier or accurate method of
> fabricating adaptors to allow use of objective lens between different
> manufacturer's scopes. Different objective screw thread is the main issue.
>
> Thanks for your help,
>
> Maurice
>

[Craig Brideau]

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Actually the larger, newer Olympus lenses have switched to M25 thread as
well. In this case it depends on what your nosepiece is threaded for. RMS
is fairly small and limits the back aperture of objectives pretty
drastically, so the move has been towards M25, and even M32 on big bore
objectives like the 16X/0.8 and 25X/1.1 sold by Nikon. The back aperture of
these lenses is on the order of 18mm or so!

Craig

On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 11:47 AM, Jens-Bernhard Bosse <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Hi Maurice,
>
> Olympus objectives have a RMS thread, while Nikon uses M25. You can get
> adapters at Thorlabs (no commercial interest).
> Also the parfocal distance is different which might result in a problem
> with your z-drive.
> This is a good summary:
> http://www.microscopyu.com/articles/optics/cfintro.html (no commercial
> interest).
> Not sure what you mean with beam expander. Maybe you mean tube lens?
> The tube lens focal length for Nikon is 200 mm while Olympus uses 180 mm.
> But that should not be a big problem.
> Both companies do their optical corrections in the objective and not the
> tube lens, I believe. So mixing Leica and Zeiss with the "Japanese"
> manufacturers might be a bigger problem. Maybe someone on the list can
> confirm?
>
> Hope that helps,
>
> Jens
>
>
> > On Nov 26, 2014, at 1:23 PM, Needham, Maurice <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > *****
> > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> > http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> > Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your
> posting.
> > *****
> >
> > Hi Everyone,
> >
> > We have an Olympus two-photon system that we would like to use a Nikon
> 16X lens (CFI LWD 16XW, NA 0.8, WD 3mm) with.  We realize that the beam
> expander on the Olympus will not compensate for this lens but wondered if
> anyone has experience with “fooling” the software to allow compensation
> when using non-Olympus lenses.  Also, we would appreciate comments on the
> utility of this lens for two-photon imaging as we also have a custom system
> that won’t have the beam expander problem.
> >
> > In addition, does anyone know of a supplier or accurate method of
> fabricating adaptors to allow use of objective lens between different
> manufacturer's scopes. Different objective screw thread is the main issue.
> >
> > Thanks for your help,
> >
> > Maurice
>

[Andreas Bruckbauer]

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The beam expander on the newer Olympus multiphotons is just that, it is motorized and makes sure the back aperture is filled when using different objectives. You can just define a new objective with the right magnification and NA to 'fool' it. This way it is also possible to underfill existing objectives.
Best wishes
Andreas

-----Original Message-----
From: "Jens-Bernhard Bosse" <[hidden email]>
Sent: ‎26/‎11/‎2014 18:51
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: inter-manufacturer objective compatibility

*****
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*****

Hi Maurice,

Olympus objectives have a RMS thread, while Nikon uses M25. You can get adapters at Thorlabs (no commercial interest).
Also the parfocal distance is different which might result in a problem with your z-drive.
This is a good summary: http://www.microscopyu.com/articles/optics/cfintro.html (no commercial interest).
Not sure what you mean with beam expander. Maybe you mean tube lens?
The tube lens focal length for Nikon is 200 mm while Olympus uses 180 mm. But that should not be a big problem.
Both companies do their optical corrections in the objective and not the tube lens, I believe. So mixing Leica and Zeiss with the "Japanese" manufacturers might be a bigger problem. Maybe someone on the list can confirm?

Hope that helps,

Jens

> On Nov 26, 2014, at 1:23 PM, Needham, Maurice <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> We have an Olympus two-photon system that we would like to use a Nikon 16X lens (CFI LWD 16XW, NA 0.8, WD 3mm) with.  We realize that the beam expander on the Olympus will not compensate for this lens but wondered if anyone has experience with “fooling” the software to allow compensation when using non-Olympus lenses.  Also, we would appreciate comments on the utility of this lens for two-photon imaging as we also have a custom system that won’t have the beam expander problem.
>
> In addition, does anyone know of a supplier or accurate method of fabricating adaptors to allow use of objective lens between different manufacturer's scopes. Different objective screw thread is the main issue.
>
> Thanks for your help,
>
> Maurice

[Zdenek Svindrych-2]

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Yes,
Nikon (200 mm tube lens) 16x/0.8 has to have BFP diameter of 20 mm. So with
small Olympus thread you won't be able to use the whole NA of your big Nikon
lens...

You may also need to rise the stage if the parfocal distance of the Nikon
lens is much larger than that of the Olympus lenses (i.e. the Nikon lens is
much longer). But if you manage to fit it mechanically, it should work.

Best, zdenek



---------- Původní zpráva ----------
Od: Craig Brideau <[hidden email]>
Komu: [hidden email]
Datum: 26. 11. 2014 14:08:33
Předmět: Re: inter-manufacturer objective compatibility

"*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
*****

Actually the larger, newer Olympus lenses have switched to M25 thread as
well. In this case it depends on what your nosepiece is threaded for. RMS
is fairly small and limits the back aperture of objectives pretty
drastically, so the move has been towards M25, and even M32 on big bore
objectives like the 16X/0.8 and 25X/1.1 sold by Nikon. The back aperture of
these lenses is on the order of 18mm or so!

Craig

On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 11:47 AM, Jens-Bernhard Bosse <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Hi Maurice,
>
> Olympus objectives have a RMS thread, while Nikon uses M25. You can get
> adapters at Thorlabs (no commercial interest).
> Also the parfocal distance is different which might result in a problem
> with your z-drive.
> This is a good summary:
> http://www.microscopyu.com/articles/optics/cfintro.html (no commercial
> interest).
> Not sure what you mean with beam expander. Maybe you mean tube lens?
> The tube lens focal length for Nikon is 200 mm while Olympus uses 180 mm.
> But that should not be a big problem.
> Both companies do their optical corrections in the objective and not the
> tube lens, I believe. So mixing Leica and Zeiss with the "Japanese"
> manufacturers might be a bigger problem. Maybe someone on the list can
> confirm?
>
> Hope that helps,
>
> Jens
>
>
> > On Nov 26, 2014, at 1:23 PM, Needham, Maurice <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > *****
> > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> > http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> > Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your
> posting.
> > *****
> >
> > Hi Everyone,
> >
> > We have an Olympus two-photon system that we would like to use a Nikon
> 16X lens (CFI LWD 16XW, NA 0.8, WD 3mm) with. We realize that the beam
> expander on the Olympus will not compensate for this lens but wondered if
> anyone has experience with “fooling” the software to allow compensation
> when using non-Olympus lenses. Also, we would appreciate comments on the
> utility of this lens for two-photon imaging as we also have a custom

system

> that won’t have the beam expander problem.
> >
> > In addition, does anyone know of a supplier or accurate method of
> fabricating adaptors to allow use of objective lens between different
> manufacturer's scopes. Different objective screw thread is the main issue.
> >
> > Thanks for your help,
> >
> > Maurice
>"

[Steffen Dietzel]

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Maurice,

we have a LaVision Biotec multi-photon which is built around an Olympus
stand. A few years ago bought additional objectives, to supplement the
(very good) 20x 0.95 Objective from Olympus for specific tasks. After
testing several ones we ended up buying one from Leica (40x, 1.1, better
resolution, but flat top) and the 16x Nikon (steeper angle, could access
places the others couldn't). Putting all theory aside, they both work
nicely for their specific purpose.

Steffen

Am 26.11.2014 19:23, schrieb Needham, Maurice:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> We have an Olympus two-photon system that we would like to use a Nikon 16X lens (CFI LWD 16XW, NA 0.8, WD 3mm) with.  We realize that the beam expander on the Olympus will not compensate for this lens but wondered if anyone has experience with “fooling” the software to allow compensation when using non-Olympus lenses.  Also, we would appreciate comments on the utility of this lens for two-photon imaging as we also have a custom system that won’t have the beam expander problem.
>
> In addition, does anyone know of a supplier or accurate method of fabricating adaptors to allow use of objective lens between different manufacturer's scopes. Different objective screw thread is the main issue.
>
> Thanks for your help,
>
> Maurice
>

--
------------------------------------------------------------
Steffen Dietzel, PD Dr. rer. nat
Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München
Walter-Brendel-Zentrum für experimentelle Medizin (WBex)
Head of light microscopy

Mail room:
Marchioninistr. 15, D-81377 München

Building location:
Marchioninistr. 27,  München-Großhadern

[Needham, Maurice]

*****
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Hi Everyone,
                    Thank you so much for all your responses. I have some homework to do but i'm sure I will get it sorted due to all your helpful comments. This is my first post to the Microscopy list and i'm very impressed with the response. Its comforting to have access to such a wealth of knowledge on Imaging. Take care,

with thanks,

Maurice
________________________________________
From: Confocal Microscopy List [[hidden email]] on behalf of Steffen Dietzel [[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 5:54 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: inter-manufacturer objective compatibility

*****
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Maurice,

we have a LaVision Biotec multi-photon which is built around an Olympus
stand. A few years ago bought additional objectives, to supplement the
(very good) 20x 0.95 Objective from Olympus for specific tasks. After
testing several ones we ended up buying one from Leica (40x, 1.1, better
resolution, but flat top) and the 16x Nikon (steeper angle, could access
places the others couldn't). Putting all theory aside, they both work
nicely for their specific purpose.

Steffen

Am 26.11.2014 19:23, schrieb Needham, Maurice:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> We have an Olympus two-photon system that we would like to use a Nikon 16X lens (CFI LWD 16XW, NA 0.8, WD 3mm) with.  We realize that the beam expander on the Olympus will not compensate for this lens but wondered if anyone has experience with “fooling” the software to allow compensation when using non-Olympus lenses.  Also, we would appreciate comments on the utility of this lens for two-photon imaging as we also have a custom system that won’t have the beam expander problem.
>
> In addition, does anyone know of a supplier or accurate method of fabricating adaptors to allow use of objective lens between different manufacturer's scopes. Different objective screw thread is the main issue.
>
> Thanks for your help,
>
> Maurice
>

--
------------------------------------------------------------
Steffen Dietzel, PD Dr. rer. nat
Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München
Walter-Brendel-Zentrum für experimentelle Medizin (WBex)
Head of light microscopy

Mail room:
Marchioninistr. 15, D-81377 München

Building location:
Marchioninistr. 27,  München-Großhadern

[Stanislav Vitha-2]

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On Wed, 26 Nov 2014 19:21:50 +0000, Andreas Bruckbauer
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>The beam expander on the newer Olympus multiphotons is just that, it is
motorized and makes sure the back aperture is filled when using different
objectives. You can just define a new objective with the right magnification
and NA to 'fool' it. This way it is also possible to underfill existing objectives.
>Best wishes
>Andreas

At least on our single-photon Olympus FV1000 (software v. 3.1), there is a
plain text file somewhere in the Fluoview installation folder that contains
the list of objectives. You can edit the file to add definition of another
objective. If I remember correctly, it contains information like
magnification, NA, immersion medium, working distance, back aperture
diameter, ..
I did that when testing a Zeiss 25x/0.8  multiimmersion objective on the
Olympus  (worked, but as expected had a pretty significant chromatic
aberration). I do not remember the name of the definition file.

Stan Vitha
Texas A&M University
Microscopy and Imaging Center