storage server suggestion
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http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?S1=confocal Hi, I'm looking for advises for choosing a storage server/system for a little confocal facility. I would need a server were users could access data on a daily base and a backup solution. I was thinking using one of those little network-attached storage devices without a real server. Does anyone have used one of those for this purpose ? Please advise JP |
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Search the CONFOCAL archive at
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Hi Jean-Pierre,
For daily use one would like fast access but low or no fault tolerance. For backup, may be slower access but fault tolerance. RAID based NAS devices should allow to create both types of storage spaces. Once you buy reasonable NAS device, you could partition it in 'every day space' (perhaps striped volume that spans multiple disks and allows fast read/write) and 'backup' (RAID5 volume). Wikipedia has a good explanation of RAID if need be. Do look for *hardware* RAID devices as they allow changing volume sizes on the fly. I recently had to re-format one server to expand disk size as the system drive (C:) was running low (not facility server but our lab's local backup server) as RAID was implemented in software by OS. regards shalin On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 8:31 AM, Jean-Pierre CLAMME <[hidden email]> wrote: Search the CONFOCAL archive at -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Shalin Mehta mobile: +65-90694182 blog: shalin.wordpress.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Bioimaging Lab, Block-E3A, #7-10 Div of Bioengineering, NUS Singapore 117574 website: http://www.bioeng.nus.edu.sg/optbioimaging/colin/index.html Liver Cancer Functional Genomics Lab, #6-05 National Cancer Centre, Singapore 169610 http://www.nccs.com.sg/researcher/02_04d.htm |
 
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Edelmann, Richard E. Dr. |
Re: storage server suggestion
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In reply to this post by Jean-Pierre CLAMME
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http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?S1=confocal Jean-Pierre: Shalin did provide some good information. For data safety you definitely want a hardware RAID solultion. One question he did not answer directly is "those little network- attached storage devices without a real server" are really slow. [BTW: They actually do have a "real server" built in to them.] For any Network solution you choose, speed will depend on (1) the network speed, (2) the disk drive speed, and (3) speed of the NAS/RAID itself. Security will also become an issue: do you want everyone to have access to everyone else's files? Or do you want them to "Login" to get their files? Do you want access from multiple computers or just the confocal box? There are some nice and easy "real server" NAS solutions out there - they come already pre-configured out of the box (with an OS like WinFileServer, Linux, or Mac) so you have very minimal setup to do. Next questions are: (1) How much space do you want? (2) What OS are you comfortable with? I would suggest you talk to your IT folks and get some help unless you wish to do it yourself. We're running a Win Server 2003 and 1gb network for controlling access to all our microscopes and computers. So after looking all stand alone NAS solutions it was easiest for me to setup another server and RAID6 array (RAID 5 with 2 spare drives) since we already have an Active Directory setup to handle file access security. Oh, and 1Gigabit network speeds finally allows for "Network Drives" to feel like "Local Drives" in terms of speed. Good luck, and let us know what your solution turns out to be. On 10 Jul 2008 at 20:31, Jean-Pierre CLAMME wrote: > Search the CONFOCAL archive at > http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?S1=confocal > > Hi, > > I'm looking for advises for choosing a storage server/system for a little > confocal facility. I would need a server were users could access data on a > daily base and a backup solution. > > I was thinking using one of those little network-attached storage devices > without a real server. Does anyone have used one of those for this purpose ? > > Please advise > > JP > > Richard E. Edelmann, Ph.D. Electron Microscopy Facility Director 364 Pearson Hall Miami University, Oxford, OH 45056 Ph: 513.529.5712 Fax: 513.529.4243 E-mail: [hidden email] http://www.emf.muohio.edu "RAM disk is NOT an installation procedure." |
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Search the CONFOCAL archive at
http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?S1=confocal
Our lab uses an XServe RAID system from Apple. It has some nice management features; users can have access to different volumes and folders based on their account, remote management, remote warning, battery backed-up transfer cache, etc. We haven't had any problems with it in the last several years; it always works.
A cheaper option would be something like the Drobo 'Storage Robot'. It's a firewire/usb connected RAID box that holds four drives. You can either plug it in to an existing server (we're considering sticking a couple onto our XServe for expansion via firewire) or you can buy a little network appliance that attaches to it and provides GigEthernet access, although without all the nifty control/admin options a full server would give you. Drobo is fairly cheap, whereas XServe is rather pricy, but as mentioned above, units like Drobo can be slow, whereas a full server system like XServe comes with things like fiber channel links to the RAID array that greatly speed up access. Craig On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 7:22 AM, Richard E. Edelmann <[hidden email]> wrote: Jean-Pierre: |
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In reply to this post by Jean-Pierre CLAMME
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http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?S1=confocal Dear Jean-Pierre, My advice is to use instead of a server external hard disks for the immediate storage, one per user. Then let the user deal with their IT departments for backups etc. This strategy has plenty advantages, some are: 1) it is a very cheap and simple solution. 2) You can directly write to these small firewire or usb disks, but you sometimes cannot do that onto a server via the net for timing reasons. 3) You are not held responsible for user data. 4) you don't have to ask people -to remove unused data, -not to save their holiday pictures, or worse stuff with whatever content,... 5) No server maintenance issues, no network issues. We tested a NAS a year ago, and this was very slow. On a Gigabit network. Cheers, jens -----Original Message----- From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jean-Pierre CLAMME Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 2:31 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: storage server suggestion Search the CONFOCAL archive at http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?S1=confocal Hi, I'm looking for advises for choosing a storage server/system for a little confocal facility. I would need a server were users could access data on a daily base and a backup solution. I was thinking using one of those little network-attached storage devices without a real server. Does anyone have used one of those for this purpose ? Please advise JP |
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Gabriel Lapointe |
Re: storage server suggestion
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In reply to this post by Jean-Pierre CLAMME
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http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?S1=confocal Personnaly, I would go with either http://www.freenas.org/ or http://www.openfiler.com/ installed on a usb key and if possible on recycled hardware. Both are open source solution to easily transform computers into file servers. Bare in mind that fileserver don't need a lot of cpu nor ram, so any 2-3 years old computer would do the job. Therefore limiting the cost to a SATA controler or 2, a Gigabit network card and the hard drives them self. The other plus is, since they are linux or BSD they requires less maintennance than windows based server solution (No risk of virus or other malware and security update rarely requires to reboot the system) and they can be installed on a small usb key freeing physical space for an extra hard drives. Plus at the price they are (free, with optional paid costumer support) you can easily do some test on an unused computer before investing in any hardware without any risk. At the same time I would also invest in a small Gigabit network only for the acquisition station. For less than 100$ you will be insulated from network bottleneck, like when alot of peaple are surfing youtube. Beside, most university network are still 100Mps anyway. As for backup, talk to your IT department, they may already have solutions for that. If it is not the case, remember that RAID is not considered a backup solution and that you probably want to place the backup hardware in an other building. That way in the unlikely event that there is a fire in your building your data will be safe (water and smoke will damage any solution you will choose. At Jens: This is what we have here and I think it is a horrible solution. That way there is no control. When I leave, after my Phd, I'm leaving with the hardware I bought with my money, so I'm leaving with my data and who knows when I will want to free the space. Also, I know That I'm the only one who religiously backup, if one of my co-workers' hard drive dies, the data dies with it. And once, I cough some one who saved their data as colour merged jpeg to save space... So yes it is a cheap solution, but at what cost? At Shalin: Linux based software RAID5 allow to expand arrays and logical volume size on the fly. Though I do recommend unmounting the partition to be expanded ( or shrunk) to avoid problems if someone wants to do IO during the expansion (same thing applies for hardware raid). And, in my opinion, putting the system partition on a raid 0,5 or 6 is looking for trouble anyway. Hardware raid has it's plus, but it also has a few draw back. 1 - The card are very expansive, be aware that a lot of SATA card and cheap RAID card uses fake-raid (software raid with special driver) which has all the inconvenient of software and hardware raid combined. 2 - If the hardware raid controller fail, you will have to find an identical one to retrieve the data. Which at the speed computer technology are discontinued might prove very hard in two or three years. Unless of course you opt for the hight end products used in big data center. Good luck with your project Jean-Pierre and if you do any benchmark, pleas share your results. Gabriel Lapointe Jean-Pierre CLAMME wrote: > Search the CONFOCAL archive at > http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?S1=confocal > > Hi, > > I'm looking for advises for choosing a storage server/system for a little > confocal facility. I would need a server were users could access data on a > daily base and a backup solution. > > I was thinking using one of those little network-attached storage devices > without a real server. Does anyone have used one of those for this purpose ? > > Please advise > > JP > > > |
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