Re: Trying to image Cy7.5 -- AxioObserver.Z1 blocking IR?

Posted by Rusty Nicovich on
URL: http://confocal-microscopy-list.275.s1.nabble.com/Trying-to-image-Cy7-5-AxioObserver-Z1-blocking-IR-tp7586976p7586987.html

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From my schematic, the Axio Observer has a heat filter right behind the
aperture diaphragm in the rear port.  This would be internal to the body of
the scope and unlikely to be accessible or removable.

Assuming it's this part number as listed on the Zeiss website:

https://www.micro-shop.zeiss.com/index.php?p=at&f=a&i=10051_400000001200100000&o&h=25&n=0&sd=467830-0000-000&l=en

and it's really typical KG 1 glass, this page has the transmission/blocking
curves:

https://www.ahf.de/art-Waermeschutzfilter_KG_1__D_25_mm;F01-125.html

The 50% cut-off for transmission is 740 nm, which may be bad news if you
are illuminating with 740 nm or 770 nm.

These KG 1 optics:

https://www.knightoptical.com/stock/optical-components/uvvisnir-optics/filters/short-pass-filters/kg1-heat-glass-filters/

have an even worse 50% cut-off at 716 nm.  Light Googling can't seem to
find more info on the Zeiss product transmission but it doesn't look like
good news if you're trying to illuminate with > 720 nm.  In any case, a
call to Zeiss is going to be the way to go here.

Thanks,
Rusty



On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 7:04 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

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>
> Michael,
> there is a plastic filter holder BELOW the filter block. That is not in the
> excitation light path. Our Axio setup is different, as we have an LSM 780
> NLO coupled to the back port. But for a widefield setup it makes perfect
> sense to include IR blocking filter somewhere in the lamp or in the
> illumination path, for the fluorescence filters are often misbehaving in
> the
> IR...
>
> You can grab a (metric) screwdriver and explore for yourself, or (as
> suggested several times) ask Zeiss.
>
> Good luck!
>
> zdenek
>
> ---------- Původní e-mail ----------
> Od: Cammer, Michael <[hidden email]>
> Komu: [hidden email]
> Datum: 12. 7. 2017 9:30:29
> Předmět: Re: Trying to image Cy7.5 -- AxioObserver.Z1 blocking IR?
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>
> Thank you for the replies. Thank you for the diagram which I reposted at
> http://microscopynotes.com/axioobserver/IR/diagram.png with the part of
> the
> light path we're having a problem with.
>
> The light guide is plugged in to the fluorescence illumination optics at
> the
> back of the AxioObserver. Then there is a 50/50 mirror in the filter block
> position to project to the back aperture of the lens. We put the mirror in
> because the electronics of the AxioObserver won't allow the shutter to open
> if the side port is open which we would need to put the power meter probe
> in. But we tested the mirror independently and it works ok out to 770 nm at
> least, so the problem must be in the illumination optics path. But Sven
> points out there may be a filter between the filter block and the
> objective,
> so I will look for that, but since we have the IR autofocus device, I don't
> see how this would be possible.
>
> I'll try another scope, but this is the one we really need to use because
> of
> the camera and stage for tiling, neither which can be moved to another
> scope
> body. Also, we cannot do customization to this stand that would prevent
> routine use because it is in microscopy core. Hence why we're looking for a
> filter that might be simple to pop out.
>
> Thanks.
>
> =*===========================================================*=
> Michael Cammer, DART Microscopy Laboratory, NYU Langone Medical Center
> Cell: 914-309-3270 (this is for calling, not texting) Office: Skirball 2nd
> Floor main office, back right
> http://ocs.med.nyu.edu/microscopy & http://microscopynotes.com/
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cammer, Michael
> Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 10:31 PM
> To: Confocal Microscopy List
> Subject: RE: Trying to image Cy7.5 -- AxioObserver.Z1 blocking IR?
>
> At this point, there are no filters (that we know of) in the light path.
> The
> light guide is plugged in to the fluorescence illumination optics at the
> back of the AxioObserver. Then there is a 50/50 mirror in the filter block
> position to project to the back aperture of the lens. We put the mirror in
> because the electronics of the AxioObserver won't allow the shutter to open
> if the side port is open which we would need to put the power meter probe
> in. But the mirror is working ok out to 770 nm at least, so I thought issue
> must be in the illumination optics path. But Sven points out there may be a
> filter between the filter block and the objective, so I will look for that,
> but since we have the IR autofocus device, I don;t see how this would be
> possible.
> Thanks.
>
> _________________________________________
> Michael Cammer, Optical Microscopy Specialist http://ocs.med.nyu.edu/
> microscopy http://microscopynotes.com/
> Cell: (914) 309-3270
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Confocal Microscopy List [[hidden email]] on
> behalf
> of Sven Terclavers [[hidden email]]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 10:25 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: Trying to image Cy7.5 -- AxioObserver.Z1 blocking IR?
>
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> The light train itself has a transmission beyond 1100nm. I assume the
> (optional) IR filter you're talking about is the one that sits just below
> the filter cubes in a slider, right above the tube lens. This one should
> not
> even affect illumination as it's a filter for emission light. Have you
> checked whether there's a small compensation glass sitting on top of the
> filter turret? I don't know its specific transmission spectrum, but it
> might
> be that one. Since you have DF you can leave this out completely.
> Furthermore, no attenuator filters that could influence transmission? And
> as
> mentioned by Craig, which filters are you using? When you remove the filter
> turret, do you see the light coming through the light train?
> Best regards,
>
> Sven
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Cammer, Michael
> Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 10:01 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Trying to image Cy7.5 -- AxioObserver.Z1 blocking IR?
>
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> A few weeks ago we asked about finding a light source at 780ish nm for
> exciting Cy7.5. As always, people on this listserv provided very helpful
> suggestions. We were able to get a pE-4000 system with multiple LEDs but
> are
> finding that the Zeiss AxioObserver.Z1 fluorescence illumination optics
> appear to be cutting wavelengths above 700 nm.
>
> We adjusted the LED powers such that 635, 660, 740, and 770 nm all have 52
> mW at the end of the liquid light guide. We removed the IR filter for the
> autofocus system that is in the objectives nosepiece. However, the light at
> 740 and 770 nm is blocked from arriving at the objective lenses.
>
> Does anyone know whether there is a filter somewhere else in the light path
> we could easily remove to pass these wavelengths or is this a limitation of
> the light train?
>
> (graphs of the power loss posted at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/
> url?u=http-3A__microscopynotes.com_axioobserver_IR_&d=DQIFaQ&c=j5oPpO0eBH1
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> CqKkuo&m=hwRGJZNcWAhP78SlBGjpWK7aUX3i2m17ECXlq3M4bCw&s=
> 5H18aiZASsoKyCJ0CWz_
> vELNL-F_nJdbJz3htY0tpT8&e= ) Thank you!!
>
> =*===========================================================*=
> Michael Cammer, DART Microscopy Laboratory, NYU Langone Medical Center
> Cell: 914-309-3270 (this is for calling, not texting) Office: Skirball 2nd
> Floor main office, back right
> http://ocs.med.nyu.edu/microscopy & https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/
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