About GaAsP and HyD detector's lifetime

[SANCHEZ MARTIN, CARLOS]

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Hi, good morning.

 

Just a quick question, please, although it may be difficult to answer yet.
I’ve been said that GaAsP and/or HyD detectors might have shorter lifetimes
than conventional PMTs, so that they might even be considered fungible
materials. I am assuming a proper use of that detectors.

 

Is this true or just a rumour?

 

Thank you very much in advance for your help.

Regards,

 

Carlos Sánchez Martín

Servicio de Microscopía Óptica y Confocal (SMOC) (Lab. 310)

(Optical and Confocal Microscopy Facility)

Centro de Biología Molecular Severo Ochoa (UAM-CSIC)

C/Nicolás Cabrera, 1. Universidad Autónoma de Madrid

Cantoblanco. E-28049. Madrid. Spain

Tlf. 34-91 196 4613/4643

Fax. [phone]

E-mail:  <mailto:[hidden email]/[hidden email]>
[hidden email]/[hidden email]

Blog:  <http://csanchezmad.wordpress.com/> http://csanchezmad.wordpress.com

Web:  <http://www.cbm.csic.es/confocal> http://www.cbm.csic.es/confocal

 

Red Española de Microscopía Óptica Avanzada (REMOA)

(Spanish Network of Advanced Optical Microscopy)

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 <http://remoa.net/> http://remoa.net 

 

Plataforma de Microscopía para Biociencias

Red de laboratorios de la Comunidad de Madrid

 <http://www.madrimasd.org/Laboratorios/plataformas-red/ficha.asp?IdPreli=3>
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[Davide Accardi]

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Hi Carlos,

We have two systems equipped with GaAsP detectors and one with HyD and I can tell you that these detectors do age.
We averagely need to exchange the GaAsP every 2500-3000 hours. Which means approximately once every 18 months for us.
Regarding the HyDs, we have a very new system equipped with them. So I cannot tell much, but we already experienced some hot pixel and comet problem.
In fact one of the detectors has already been exchanged.

With this I don't want to say that they are bad or inconvenient.
Quite the opposite! They truly do a much better job than PMTs. If I could, I would always go for these more sensitive detector.
But one must keep in mind that they are consumables.

I hope this helps.

Best,

D.
--
Davide Accardi, PhD
Light Microscopy Facility
Max Planck Institute of Molecular Cell Biology and Genetics
Pfotenhauerstrasse 108
01307 DRESDEN
Germany

Phone: [phone]







On Mar 30, 2015, at 8:27 AM, Carlos Sanchez Martin wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Hi, good morning.
>
>
>
> Just a quick question, please, although it may be difficult to answer yet.
> I’ve been said that GaAsP and/or HyD detectors might have shorter lifetimes
> than conventional PMTs, so that they might even be considered fungible
> materials. I am assuming a proper use of that detectors.
>
>
>
> Is this true or just a rumour?
>
>
>
> Thank you very much in advance for your help.
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Carlos Sánchez Martín
>
> Servicio de Microscopía Óptica y Confocal (SMOC) (Lab. 310)
>
> (Optical and Confocal Microscopy Facility)
>
> Centro de Biología Molecular Severo Ochoa (UAM-CSIC)
>
> C/Nicolás Cabrera, 1. Universidad Autónoma de Madrid
>
> Cantoblanco. E-28049. Madrid. Spain
>
> Tlf. 34-91 196 4613/4643
>
> Fax. [phone]
>
> E-mail:  <mailto:[hidden email]/[hidden email]>
> [hidden email]/[hidden email]
>
> Blog:  <http://csanchezmad.wordpress.com/> http://csanchezmad.wordpress.com
>
> Web:  <http://www.cbm.csic.es/confocal> http://www.cbm.csic.es/confocal
>
>
>
> Red Española de Microscopía Óptica Avanzada (REMOA)
>
> (Spanish Network of Advanced Optical Microscopy)
>
> <http://remoa.wikispaces.com/> http://remoa.wikispaces.com
>
> <http://remoa.net/> http://remoa.net 
>
>
>
> Plataforma de Microscopía para Biociencias
>
> Red de laboratorios de la Comunidad de Madrid
>
> <http://www.madrimasd.org/Laboratorios/plataformas-red/ficha.asp?IdPreli=3>
> http://www.madrimasd.org/Laboratorios/plataformas-red/ficha.asp?IdPreli=3
>
>

[Oliver Biehlmaier-2]

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Dear Carlos,

I can only give you feedback on the HyDs as we are using them on our SP5s.
You have to be more careful as on normal PMTs as the HyDs should have as few overloads as possible. Even though they have a protection against it, they are quite vulnerable.
Other than that they should be also quite reliable.
However, so far all of our 4 HyDs had to be exchanged at least once a year (in warranty) due to functional problems ( "comets" on the image), which should be solved on the new HyDs delivered more recently. So far we do not have any experience with GAsP-detectors...

I hope that helps,
Oliver

Sent from a mobile device.

Oliver Biehlmaier, PhD | Head of Imaging Core Facility  | Biozentrum, University of Basel | Klingelbergstrasse 50/70 | CH-4056 Basel
Phone: [phone]<tel:+41%2061%20267%2020%2073> | Email:[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> |www.biozentrum.unibas.ch<http://www.biozentrum.unibas.ch/> |www.microscopynetwork.unibas.ch<http://www.microscopynetwork.unibas.ch/>


Am 30.03.2015 um 08:30 schrieb Carlos Sanchez Martin <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>:

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Hi, good morning.



Just a quick question, please, although it may be difficult to answer yet.
I've been said that GaAsP and/or HyD detectors might have shorter lifetimes
than conventional PMTs, so that they might even be considered fungible
materials. I am assuming a proper use of that detectors.



Is this true or just a rumour?



Thank you very much in advance for your help.

Regards,



Carlos Sánchez Martín

Servicio de Microscopía Óptica y Confocal (SMOC) (Lab. 310)

(Optical and Confocal Microscopy Facility)

Centro de Biología Molecular Severo Ochoa (UAM-CSIC)

C/Nicolás Cabrera, 1. Universidad Autónoma de Madrid

Cantoblanco. E-28049. Madrid. Spain

Tlf. 34-91 196 4613/4643

Fax. [phone]

E-mail:  <mailto:[hidden email]/[hidden email]>
[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>/[hidden email]

Blog:  <http://csanchezmad.wordpress.com/> http://csanchezmad.wordpress.com

Web:  <http://www.cbm.csic.es/confocal> http://www.cbm.csic.es/confocal



Red Española de Microscopía Óptica Avanzada (REMOA)

(Spanish Network of Advanced Optical Microscopy)

<http://remoa.wikispaces.com/> http://remoa.wikispaces.com

<http://remoa.net/> http://remoa.net



Plataforma de Microscopía para Biociencias

Red de laboratorios de la Comunidad de Madrid

<http://www.madrimasd.org/Laboratorios/plataformas-red/ficha.asp?IdPreli=3>
http://www.madrimasd.org/Laboratorios/plataformas-red/ficha.asp?IdPreli=3

[Johannes Helm]

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*****

Good morning,

while I do not want to contradict Davide, who already has sent an
answer to your question, Carlos, I should like to mention that GaAsP
detectors cannot only be destroyed by a large photo current as caused by
too bright of a light source once HV is applied. The photo sensitive
coating on the detection window of these detectors, i.e. the GaAsP
coating, as far as I know, does degrade, and the more rapidly so the
stronger the incident light is. To say it in extreme words: Expose it to
the sun light in Death Valley without any protection and it will be gone
within a short time. Since the coating of the Hybrid detector is the
same as on the GaAsP photomultiplier tubes - the difference between the
detectors solely being the sub-sequent amplification of the signal
generated by the incident photon(s) - even the Hybrid detector does NOT
tolerate strong incident light, even if there is not any voltage for
signal amplification applied.

If one, however, installs the detector(s) on the microscope so that it
is protected against any strong light - e.g. by furnishing any light
source on the microscope, which is not used for acquiring images by
means of the named detectors, with electro mechanical shutters, which
automatically will close whenever there would be any "danger" that light
of these light sources could be incident on the detectors - then the
life time of these detectors can be considerably prolonged.

Example:
Most MPLSM systems - there are exceptions - will include equipment for
wide field epi-fluorescence or transmitted light observation.
There also might be in the turret for the epi-illumination fluorescence
filter "cubes" one position containing a short pass dichroic, which will
transmit the IR light from the laser but reflect any visible light
towards the detector.
If, incidentally, this filter is in the ray path, while at the same
time the stressed and tired PhD student in biology, who quite naturally
is mostly interested in getting the data for her next paper out of her
preparation and does not care so much about laboratory equipment to be
used by the next generation of PhD students, switches on the 12V / 100W
halogen bulb for transmitted light wide field observation, this is a
little bit like the "Death Valley" experience for the detector. One can
avoid that by installing a position detector in the turret and send its
signal to a shutter in front of the 12V / 100W bulb so that the shutter
will close - and remain closed - whenever the turret is not in a "safe"
position (which is NOT the same as "whenever the shutter is in the
"dangerous" position).

Reference e.g. P. J. Helm, T. Reppen, P. Heggelund (2009), A setup for
combined multi photon laser scanning microscopic and multi electrode
patch clamp experiments on brain slices,  Proc. SPIE 7183:71832Q-1 -
71832Q-8

Best wishes,

Johannes


On 2015-03-30 08:27, Carlos Sanchez Martin wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your
> posting.
> *****
>
> Hi, good morning.
>
>
>
> Just a quick question, please, although it may be difficult to answer
> yet.
> I've been said that GaAsP and/or HyD detectors might have shorter
> lifetimes
> than conventional PMTs, so that they might even be considered fungible
> materials. I am assuming a proper use of that detectors.
>
>
>
> Is this true or just a rumour?
>
>
>
> Thank you very much in advance for your help.
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Carlos Sánchez Martín
>
> Servicio de Microscopía Óptica y Confocal (SMOC) (Lab. 310)
>
> (Optical and Confocal Microscopy Facility)
>
> Centro de Biología Molecular Severo Ochoa (UAM-CSIC)
>
> C/Nicolás Cabrera, 1. Universidad Autónoma de Madrid
>
> Cantoblanco. E-28049. Madrid. Spain
>
> Tlf. 34-91 196 4613/4643
>
> Fax. [phone]
>
> E-mail:  <mailto:[hidden email]/[hidden email]>
> [hidden email]/[hidden email]
>
> Blog:  <http://csanchezmad.wordpress.com/>
> http://csanchezmad.wordpress.com
>
> Web:  <http://www.cbm.csic.es/confocal>
> http://www.cbm.csic.es/confocal
>
>
>
> Red Española de Microscopía Óptica Avanzada (REMOA)
>
> (Spanish Network of Advanced Optical Microscopy)
>
>  <http://remoa.wikispaces.com/> http://remoa.wikispaces.com
>
>  <http://remoa.net/> http://remoa.net
>
>
>
> Plataforma de Microscopía para Biociencias
>
> Red de laboratorios de la Comunidad de Madrid
>
>  
> <http://www.madrimasd.org/Laboratorios/plataformas-red/ficha.asp?IdPreli=3>
> http://www.madrimasd.org/Laboratorios/plataformas-red/ficha.asp?IdPreli=3

--
P. Johannes Helm

Voice: ([phone] (office)
Fax: [phone] (office)

[MORONE Diego RIC]

Hi Carlos,

In principle every PMT should have an aging effect depending on strong incident light, so also GaAs detectors. Some companies even go further to consider them as "consumables", to exclude them from maintenance contracts with parts replacement.

Personally, when after 4 years of light/medium usage I changed the GaAs and GaAsP detectors on our multiphoton, I experienced a 30/40 % increase in sensitivity on both types.

have a good monday
Diego



................................
Diego Morone
Microscopy Staff Scientist
Humanitas Clinical and Research Center
Rozzano - Milano, Italy
www.humanitas-research.org




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-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Johannes Helm
Sent: lunedì 30 marzo 2015 09:31
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: About GaAsP and HyD detector's lifetime

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
*****

Good morning,

while I do not want to contradict Davide, who already has sent an answer to your question, Carlos, I should like to mention that GaAsP detectors cannot only be destroyed by a large photo current as caused by too bright of a light source once HV is applied. The photo sensitive coating on the detection window of these detectors, i.e. the GaAsP coating, as far as I know, does degrade, and the more rapidly so the stronger the incident light is. To say it in extreme words: Expose it to the sun light in Death Valley without any protection and it will be gone within a short time. Since the coating of the Hybrid detector is the same as on the GaAsP photomultiplier tubes - the difference between the detectors solely being the sub-sequent amplification of the signal generated by the incident photon(s) - even the Hybrid detector does NOT tolerate strong incident light, even if there is not any voltage for signal amplification applied.

If one, however, installs the detector(s) on the microscope so that it is protected against any strong light - e.g. by furnishing any light source on the microscope, which is not used for acquiring images by means of the named detectors, with electro mechanical shutters, which automatically will close whenever there would be any "danger" that light of these light sources could be incident on the detectors - then the life time of these detectors can be considerably prolonged.

Example:
Most MPLSM systems - there are exceptions - will include equipment for wide field epi-fluorescence or transmitted light observation.
There also might be in the turret for the epi-illumination fluorescence filter "cubes" one position containing a short pass dichroic, which will transmit the IR light from the laser but reflect any visible light towards the detector.
If, incidentally, this filter is in the ray path, while at the same time the stressed and tired PhD student in biology, who quite naturally is mostly interested in getting the data for her next paper out of her preparation and does not care so much about laboratory equipment to be used by the next generation of PhD students, switches on the 12V / 100W halogen bulb for transmitted light wide field observation, this is a little bit like the "Death Valley" experience for the detector. One can avoid that by installing a position detector in the turret and send its signal to a shutter in front of the 12V / 100W bulb so that the shutter will close - and remain closed - whenever the turret is not in a "safe"
position (which is NOT the same as "whenever the shutter is in the "dangerous" position).

Reference e.g. P. J. Helm, T. Reppen, P. Heggelund (2009), A setup for combined multi photon laser scanning microscopic and multi electrode patch clamp experiments on brain slices,  Proc. SPIE 7183:71832Q-1 -
71832Q-8

Best wishes,

Johannes


On 2015-03-30 08:27, Carlos Sanchez Martin wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your
> posting.
> *****
>
> Hi, good morning.
>
>
>
> Just a quick question, please, although it may be difficult to answer
> yet.
> I've been said that GaAsP and/or HyD detectors might have shorter
> lifetimes than conventional PMTs, so that they might even be
> considered fungible materials. I am assuming a proper use of that
> detectors.
>
>
>
> Is this true or just a rumour?
>
>
>
> Thank you very much in advance for your help.
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Carlos Sánchez Martín
>
> Servicio de Microscopía Óptica y Confocal (SMOC) (Lab. 310)
>
> (Optical and Confocal Microscopy Facility)
>
> Centro de Biología Molecular Severo Ochoa (UAM-CSIC)
>
> C/Nicolás Cabrera, 1. Universidad Autónoma de Madrid
>
> Cantoblanco. E-28049. Madrid. Spain
>
> Tlf. 34-91 196 4613/4643
>
> Fax. [phone]
>
> E-mail:  <mailto:[hidden email]/[hidden email]>
> [hidden email]/[hidden email]
>
> Blog:  <http://csanchezmad.wordpress.com/>
> http://csanchezmad.wordpress.com
>
> Web:  <http://www.cbm.csic.es/confocal>
> http://www.cbm.csic.es/confocal
>
>
>
> Red Española de Microscopía Óptica Avanzada (REMOA)
>
> (Spanish Network of Advanced Optical Microscopy)
>
>  <http://remoa.wikispaces.com/> http://remoa.wikispaces.com
>
>  <http://remoa.net/> http://remoa.net
>
>
>
> Plataforma de Microscopía para Biociencias
>
> Red de laboratorios de la Comunidad de Madrid
>
>
> <http://www.madrimasd.org/Laboratorios/plataformas-red/ficha.asp?IdPre
> li=3>
> http://www.madrimasd.org/Laboratorios/plataformas-red/ficha.asp?IdPrel
> i=3

--
P. Johannes Helm

Voice:  ([phone] (office)
Fax:    [phone] (office)