Ar ion laser durability

[Konstantín Levitskiy]

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Dear microscopists,

We have a quite new confocal system (2 years old) and in some occasions we
have doubts about whether our Ar ion multiline laser is experiencing some
problems. The Official Technical Service tell us that it is impossible to
get a new gas laser since they are no longer build. So, instead of multiline
Ar laser they claim we should change to a solid one-line 488nm laser.
Fortunately, in fact the problem was different (the analyzer for Nomarski
contrast was put in the optic path).

In summary, the official tech ensures that we have to use multiline laser
switched to maximum potency. So, even though we do not use much any other
lines, different than 488nm, nevertheless we would like to prevent the early
aging of our Ar laser, which would likely happen if we stay using it at
maximum potency. Is really the use at maximum power the best way to prolong
the life time for Ar laser? Or it would be preferable work at, for example
50%?

Best regards,

Dr. Konstantín Levitskiy

Servicio de Microscopía

InstitutodeBiomedicinadeSevilla - IBiS

Campus del Hospital Universitario Virgen del Rocío

Avda. Manuel Siurot s/nº

41013 Sevilla

Tlfno: 955 92 3030

Email:  <mailto:[hidden email]> [hidden email]

Web:  <http://www.ibis-sevilla.es/> www.ibis-sevilla.es

 

[Craig Brideau]

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Hi Konstantin, I am going through exactly the same problem right now. I
have a confocal system with a dead argon-ion laser and I am working on
replacements. In the past, I have had my laser 'refurbished'. I don't know
what your repair options are in Spain, but I was able to send my laser to a
company in the US to have it re-tubed. I have done this two or three times
now at a cost of about $5000 USD for each refurbishment. The laser comes
back 'like new' after this as the company replaces the expired gas tube and
checks all the electronics and optics. The only problem is that Argon
lasers seeing heavy use are typically only going to last a few years at
best, so the cost of sending it out for repair (not to mention system down
time while the laser is being shipped to the USA) is starting to be a
problem. We have started to move towards work that only requires the 488nm
line of the argon (previously the 457nm line was important to us, but not
anymore) so I am considering replacing our Argon with a direct diode laser.
This should have about 10x to 20x the lifespan of a typical Argon laser so
will save time and money in the long run. Also, for 488nm lasers of modest
specifications the pricing isn't much more than what I was paying to have
the Argon laser refurbished. I am currently shopping around, so if anyone
is interested in my results please email me privately in a couple weeks.

Craig


On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 9:11 AM, Konstantín Levitskiy <[hidden email]
> wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Dear microscopists,
>
> We have a quite new confocal system (2 years old) and in some occasions we
> have doubts about whether our Ar ion multiline laser is experiencing some
> problems. The Official Technical Service tell us that it is impossible to
> get a new gas laser since they are no longer build. So, instead of
> multiline
> Ar laser they claim we should change to a solid one-line 488nm laser.
> Fortunately, in fact the problem was different (the analyzer for Nomarski
> contrast was put in the optic path).
>
> In summary, the official tech ensures that we have to use multiline laser
> switched to maximum potency. So, even though we do not use much any other
> lines, different than 488nm, nevertheless we would like to prevent the
> early
> aging of our Ar laser, which would likely happen if we stay using it at
> maximum potency. Is really the use at maximum power the best way to prolong
> the life time for Ar laser? Or it would be preferable work at, for example
> 50%?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Dr. Konstantín Levitskiy
>
> Servicio de Microscopía
>
> InstitutodeBiomedicinadeSevilla - IBiS
>
> Campus del Hospital Universitario Virgen del Rocío
>
> Avda. Manuel Siurot s/nº
>
> 41013 Sevilla
>
> Tlfno: 955 92 3030
>
> Email:  <mailto:[hidden email]> [hidden email]
>
> Web:  <http://www.ibis-sevilla.es/> www.ibis-sevilla.es
>
>
>

[Arvydas Matiukas]

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Hi Konstantin,
 
My experience with several argon lasers is that when you need
to increase current to max the laser tube is approaching its end.
The higher current you set, the more stable will be the emission,
however this shortens lifetime (e.g. in standby the current is set
at ~3A or ~40%).To prolong lifetime run laser at 50% if the emitted
power and stability is aceptable.
 
I am surprised to hear somebody stating that Ar lasers are not
available anymore.
At least some companies like Lasos are still making them (no commercial
interest).
I replaced Lasos Ar multiline laser for below $5000 two years ago
(just laser head keeoing the old power supply). For the same price
it is better than the refurbishment proposed by Craig.
Best,
Arvydas
 

 
 
Arvydas Matiukas, Ph.D.
Director of Confocal&Two-Photon Core
SUNY Upstate Medical University
Syracuse, USA
>>> Craig Brideau <[hidden email]> 11/2/2017 1:54 PM >>>
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Hi Konstantin, I am going through exactly the same problem right now.
I
have a confocal system with a dead argon-ion laser and I am working on
replacements. In the past, I have had my laser 'refurbished'. I don't
know
what your repair options are in Spain, but I was able to send my laser
to a
company in the US to have it re-tubed. I have done this two or three
times
now at a cost of about $5000 USD for each refurbishment. The laser
comes
back 'like new' after this as the company replaces the expired gas tube
and
checks all the electronics and optics. The only problem is that Argon
lasers seeing heavy use are typically only going to last a few years
at
best, so the cost of sending it out for repair (not to mention system
down
time while the laser is being shipped to the USA) is starting to be a
problem. We have started to move towards work that only requires the
488nm
line of the argon (previously the 457nm line was important to us, but
not
anymore) so I am considering replacing our Argon with a direct diode
laser.
This should have about 10x to 20x the lifespan of a typical Argon laser
so
will save time and money in the long run. Also, for 488nm lasers of
modest
specifications the pricing isn't much more than what I was paying to
have
the Argon laser refurbished. I am currently shopping around, so if
anyone
is interested in my results please email me privately in a couple
weeks.

Craig


On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 9:11 AM, Konstantín Levitskiy
<[hidden email]
> wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your
posting.
> *****
>
> Dear microscopists,
>
> We have a quite new confocal system (2 years old) and in some
occasions we
> have doubts about whether our Ar ion multiline laser is experiencing
some
> problems. The Official Technical Service tell us that it is
impossible to
> get a new gas laser since they are no longer build. So, instead of
> multiline
> Ar laser they claim we should change to a solid one-line 488nm
laser.
> Fortunately, in fact the problem was different (the analyzer for
Nomarski
> contrast was put in the optic path).
>
> In summary, the official tech ensures that we have to use multiline
laser
> switched to maximum potency. So, even though we do not use much any
other
> lines, different than 488nm, nevertheless we would like to prevent
the
> early
> aging of our Ar laser, which would likely happen if we stay using it
at
> maximum potency. Is really the use at maximum power the best way to
prolong
> the life time for Ar laser? Or it would be preferable work at, for
example

> 50%?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Dr. Konstantín Levitskiy
>
> Servicio de Microscopía
>
> InstitutodeBiomedicinadeSevilla - IBiS
>
> Campus del Hospital Universitario Virgen del Rocío
>
> Avda. Manuel Siurot s/n*
>
> 41013 Sevilla
>
> Tlfno: 955 92 3030
>
> Email:  <mailto:[hidden email]> [hidden email]
>
> Web:  <http://www.ibis-sevilla.es/> www.ibis-sevilla.es
>
>
>

[Nikos Ekizoglou - Planelight]

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*****

Dear Konstantin,
The Ar lasers have not disappeared but they are replaced more and more with
multilaser light engines that are using diode lasers. You can still buy a
new Ar laser but for sure the first step is to refurbish the one you already
have. What they normally do is recharge the gas and in the best case they
change the whole gas tube. This normally comes with one year warranty and it
is much cheaper than buying a new Ar laser. If you are in Spain and you are
interested in refurbishing your laser, send me an email and I can send you
the contact details.
One of the possible reasons that the Ar lasers are not lasting long is that
they are used at full power all the time while the microscope controls the
laser line and intensity of light reaching the sample by AOTF modules.
Best regards

Nikos Ekizoglou

Plane Light S.L.   
C/ Riocabado, 4
28047 Madrid (Spain)
Phone: [phone]
Cell: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
www.planelight.net



-----Mensaje original-----
De: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] En
nombre de Konstantín Levitskiy
Enviado el: jueves, 02 de noviembre de 2017 16:11
Para: [hidden email]
Asunto: Ar ion laser durability

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*****

Dear microscopists,

We have a quite new confocal system (2 years old) and in some occasions we
have doubts about whether our Ar ion multiline laser is experiencing some
problems. The Official Technical Service tell us that it is impossible to
get a new gas laser since they are no longer build. So, instead of multiline
Ar laser they claim we should change to a solid one-line 488nm laser.
Fortunately, in fact the problem was different (the analyzer for Nomarski
contrast was put in the optic path).

In summary, the official tech ensures that we have to use multiline laser
switched to maximum potency. So, even though we do not use much any other
lines, different than 488nm, nevertheless we would like to prevent the early
aging of our Ar laser, which would likely happen if we stay using it at
maximum potency. Is really the use at maximum power the best way to prolong
the life time for Ar laser? Or it would be preferable work at, for example
50%?

Best regards,

Dr. Konstantín Levitskiy

Servicio de Microscopía

InstitutodeBiomedicinadeSevilla - IBiS

Campus del Hospital Universitario Virgen del Rocío

Avda. Manuel Siurot s/nº

41013 Sevilla

Tlfno: 955 92 3030

Email:  <mailto:[hidden email]> [hidden email]

Web:  <http://www.ibis-sevilla.es/> www.ibis-sevilla.es

 

[Steffen Dietzel]

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*****

Konstantin,

you might get more specific answers if you would mention which system
you are talking about. And you might be interested to hear that I got an
offer for replacement of an Argon laser as of last spring. I believe
they still should be available for repairs.

Anyway, on our old Leica SP5 we operated the Argon laser always at 20 %
hardware power. We were told that below 15 % the laser output would
fluctuate quite a bit so 20 % seemed like a safe margin. Despite this
setting, we didn't need to set the AOTF to more than 30 % (usually
<10%). We did not use it at full power specifically to prolong life time.

So the only experiment I could imagine where it would make sense to
crank up the hardware power on that old system would be stuff like FRAP.

You might have a different Argon laser though and stability might be
different (and apart from stability I do not see what could be the
problem with a laser operated at reduced power. Anyone?). If you worry
about stability you could do a test scan with a fluorescent plastic
slide, like the ones from Chroma or some other uniformly fluorescent
test sample. If you then scan with a low res objective and use several
detectors in parallel (including transmission if available) then you can
be pretty sure that any change in intensity seen in all detectors is due
to laser intensity issues (and not to detector problems). If you compare
the  result for full hardware power and low AOTF setting to lower
hardware power and more open AOTF (line to line as well as long term and
ideally day to day) you should get the answer if usage of your laser at
lower power is ok. (Make sure the laser had enough time to equilibrate
at each power setting. Fluctuation is supposed to be worse during warm up.)

Good luck

Steffen


Am 02.11.2017 um 16:11 schrieb Konstantín Levitskiy:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Dear microscopists,
>
> We have a quite new confocal system (2 years old) and in some occasions we
> have doubts about whether our Ar ion multiline laser is experiencing some
> problems. The Official Technical Service tell us that it is impossible to
> get a new gas laser since they are no longer build. So, instead of multiline
> Ar laser they claim we should change to a solid one-line 488nm laser.
> Fortunately, in fact the problem was different (the analyzer for Nomarski
> contrast was put in the optic path).
>
> In summary, the official tech ensures that we have to use multiline laser
> switched to maximum potency. So, even though we do not use much any other
> lines, different than 488nm, nevertheless we would like to prevent the early
> aging of our Ar laser, which would likely happen if we stay using it at
> maximum potency. Is really the use at maximum power the best way to prolong
> the life time for Ar laser? Or it would be preferable work at, for example
> 50%?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Dr. Konstantín Levitskiy
>
> Servicio de Microscopía
>
> InstitutodeBiomedicinadeSevilla - IBiS
>
> Campus del Hospital Universitario Virgen del Rocío
>
> Avda. Manuel Siurot s/nº
>
> 41013 Sevilla
>
> Tlfno: 955 92 3030
>
> Email:  <mailto:[hidden email]> [hidden email]
>
> Web:  <http://www.ibis-sevilla.es/> www.ibis-sevilla.es
>
>  
>

--
-- ----------------------------------------------------------

Steffen Dietzel, PD Dr. rer. nat.
Head of the Core Facility Bioimaging at the Biomedical Center
Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München
Walter-Brendel-Zentrum für Experimentelle Medizin

Address:
Biomedical Center
Großhaderner Straße 9
D-82152 Planegg-Martinsried

Phone: [phone]
skype: steffendietzel
e-mail: [hidden email]
fax-to-e-mail: +49/89/2180-9971518
http://www.bioimaging.bmc.med.uni-muenchen.de


--
------------------------------------------------------------
Steffen Dietzel, PD Dr. rer. nat
Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München
Biomedical Center (BMC)
Head of the Core Facility Bioimaging

Großhaderner Straße 9
D-82152 Planegg-Martinsried
Germany

http://www.bioimaging.bmc.med.uni-muenchen.de

[Konstantín Levitskiy]

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*****

Hi everybody,

thanks all of you for your advices. As I mentioned, our laser (Melles
Griot) issue has been resolved, there was no trouble with it.

So my intention is to find out the way to prolong the laser useful
lifetime. And yes, we do have a knob for the laser power supply. We'll
follow your advices to get the minimum power current with a maximum
stability.  

"TO SERVE AND PROTECT".

Best regards,

DR. KONSTANTÍN LEVITSKY

SERVICIO DE MICROSCOPÍA

INSTITUTODEBIOMEDICINADESEVILLA - IBIS

CAMPUS DEL HOSPITAL UNIVERSITARIO VIRGEN DEL ROCÍO

AVDA. MANUEL SIUROT S/Nº

41013 SEVILLA

TLFNO: 955 92 3030

EMAIL: [hidden email]

WEB: WWW.IBIS-SEVILLA.ES [1]

Links:
------
[1] http://www.ibis-sevilla.es

[Craig Brideau]

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A number of 'listers have contacted me asking for details of my 488 laser
replacement saga. I've received quotes from a few vendors and all were
quite reasonable. I won't name names in the interest of fairness, but in
general, the quotes came in between about $5500 and $8000 USD. The price
difference mainly scaled with the power of the laser, with ~20-25mW on the
cheap end and >100mW on the high end. Please note this was for a North
American purchase (Canada) and I specified single spatial-mode TEM00 with
wavelength stabilization not required. I was pretty impressed with all the
quotes I received as the feature sets offered by all the vendors were
pretty similar (includes all three of analog control, TTL control, manual
control). Cost basically scales over the stated range with maximum power
output. Expect variations for your locale and be sure to contact your local
representatives for pricing in your area. Import fees and handling charges
can be significant so this will lead to pricing differences.

Craig

On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Nikos Ekizoglou - Planelight <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Dear Konstantin,
> The Ar lasers have not disappeared but they are replaced more and more with
> multilaser light engines that are using diode lasers. You can still buy a
> new Ar laser but for sure the first step is to refurbish the one you
> already
> have. What they normally do is recharge the gas and in the best case they
> change the whole gas tube. This normally comes with one year warranty and
> it
> is much cheaper than buying a new Ar laser. If you are in Spain and you are
> interested in refurbishing your laser, send me an email and I can send you
> the contact details.
> One of the possible reasons that the Ar lasers are not lasting long is that
> they are used at full power all the time while the microscope controls the
> laser line and intensity of light reaching the sample by AOTF modules.
> Best regards
>
> Nikos Ekizoglou
>
> Plane Light S.L.
> C/ Riocabado, 4
> 28047 Madrid (Spain)
> Phone: [phone]
> Cell: [phone]
> Fax: [phone]
> www.planelight.net
>
>
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] En
> nombre de Konstantín Levitskiy
> Enviado el: jueves, 02 de noviembre de 2017 16:11
> Para: [hidden email]
> Asunto: Ar ion laser durability
>
> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Dear microscopists,
>
> We have a quite new confocal system (2 years old) and in some occasions we
> have doubts about whether our Ar ion multiline laser is experiencing some
> problems. The Official Technical Service tell us that it is impossible to
> get a new gas laser since they are no longer build. So, instead of
> multiline
> Ar laser they claim we should change to a solid one-line 488nm laser.
> Fortunately, in fact the problem was different (the analyzer for Nomarski
> contrast was put in the optic path).
>
> In summary, the official tech ensures that we have to use multiline laser
> switched to maximum potency. So, even though we do not use much any other
> lines, different than 488nm, nevertheless we would like to prevent the
> early
> aging of our Ar laser, which would likely happen if we stay using it at
> maximum potency. Is really the use at maximum power the best way to prolong
> the life time for Ar laser? Or it would be preferable work at, for example
> 50%?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Dr. Konstantín Levitskiy
>
> Servicio de Microscopía
>
> InstitutodeBiomedicinadeSevilla - IBiS
>
> Campus del Hospital Universitario Virgen del Rocío
>
> Avda. Manuel Siurot s/nº
>
> 41013 Sevilla
>
> Tlfno: 955 92 3030
>
> Email:  <mailto:[hidden email]> [hidden email]
>
> Web:  <http://www.ibis-sevilla.es/> www.ibis-sevilla.es
>
>
>