Galvo scanner for two-photon system

[Oldbhoy]

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Hi all,

I've been slowly replacing and upgrading bits and pieces on our old LSM510 microscope, with the eventual aim of replacing it entirely with a custom-built system.
The next stage of this little adventure is to acquire a set of galvo scanning mirrors and a suitable controller, however i'm not sure what to go for. Thorlabs have what looks to be a complete package that will no doubt be quite straightforward to program and control (LSKGG4), but I wondered if anyone had any experience with this or other systems (Cambridge Technologies for example).

I'm looking for relative ease of use as i'm not particularly skilled with electronics, but if there were decent installation guides anyone could point me towards that I could follow that would be really helpful

Thanks,

Allen

[Michael Giacomelli-2]

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Hi Allen,

There are 3 widely used vendors of galvanometer scanners in microscopy, Cambridge Tech, Nutfield and ScannerMax.  They are mostly differentiated by performance, which you do not seem too concerned about, so any would likely work.  I don't know which is in the Thorlabs kit, but many of their products use Cambridge Technology.

Regarding electronics, generally whatever you buy comes with a matched controller and you plug it into that and a DC power supply.

The real value of buying a kit (from any vendor) rather than individual units is that it includes the correctly sized galvo pair and the hardware to mount them optimally.  The scan lens in your microscope is designed around a certain gavlo-galvo spacing, probably very short, but put them too close and you can smash the mirrors together.  This can be tricky to get right without a lot of thought.

Any reason you aren't going to keep the scanners in your 510 and just reuse them in a new system?  They will be correctly sized and spaced for the optics they go with.  I would be tempted to keep using them until they break.

Mike

On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 12:35 PM Allen Kelly <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
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Hi all,

I've been slowly replacing and upgrading bits and pieces on our old LSM510 microscope, with the eventual aim of replacing it entirely with a custom-built system.
The next stage of this little adventure is to acquire a set of galvo scanning mirrors and a suitable controller, however i'm not sure what to go for. Thorlabs have what looks to be a complete package that will no doubt be quite straightforward to program and control (LSKGG4), but I wondered if anyone had any experience with this or other systems (Cambridge Technologies for example).

I'm looking for relative ease of use as i'm not particularly skilled with electronics, but if there were decent installation guides anyone could point me towards that I could follow that would be really helpful

Thanks,

Allen


--
Michael Giacomelli, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Department of Biomedical Engineering
University of Rochester

[Zdenek Svindrych-2]

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Hi Allen,

I once set up a two-photon scope with galvos (and mount and galvo amps)
from a laser-light-show shop (it was UK-based One Stop Laser Shop, it's sad
to see they went out of business, I can't mention what their website is
selling now, I'd be blocked by spam filters forever).
Some googling yielded this:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32858599743.html
looks quite similar, only there were two separate apms (and we paid much
more :-).
I admit, Cambridge galvos would've been better, but I could get 1-2kHz line
rate, which was OK. Anyway, buying the mount that fits the galvos makes
things much easier!
Software integration may be painful, I started from scratch with ScanImage
(some old free version) and Nation Instruments DAQ cards, and I did not
have the resources to make the software user friendly (so only a narrow
circle of enlightened individuals were able to operate the microscope).

Good luck with tour 510 overhaul!

Best, zdenek


On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 12:35 PM Allen Kelly <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've been slowly replacing and upgrading bits and pieces on our old LSM510
> microscope, with the eventual aim of replacing it entirely with a
> custom-built system.
> The next stage of this little adventure is to acquire a set of galvo
> scanning mirrors and a suitable controller, however i'm not sure what to go
> for. Thorlabs have what looks to be a complete package that will no doubt
> be quite straightforward to program and control (LSKGG4), but I wondered if
> anyone had any experience with this or other systems (Cambridge
> Technologies for example).
>
> I'm looking for relative ease of use as i'm not particularly skilled with
> electronics, but if there were decent installation guides anyone could
> point me towards that I could follow that would be really helpful
>
> Thanks,
>
> Allen
>

--
--
Zdenek Svindrych, Ph.D.
Research Associate - Imaging Specialist
Department of Biochemistry and Cell Biology
Geisel School of Medicine at Dartmouth

[Craig Brideau]

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For me the largest issue was the software to synchronize the galvo motion
with sampling from the PMTs. I have written such a program once, and while
it did work, I cannot recommend the experience. @:-) Unless you already
have a software platform in mind, I would make the software that comes with
the hardware a priority factor in your decision.

Craig


On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 10:35 AM Allen Kelly <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've been slowly replacing and upgrading bits and pieces on our old LSM510
> microscope, with the eventual aim of replacing it entirely with a
> custom-built system.
> The next stage of this little adventure is to acquire a set of galvo
> scanning mirrors and a suitable controller, however i'm not sure what to go
> for. Thorlabs have what looks to be a complete package that will no doubt
> be quite straightforward to program and control (LSKGG4), but I wondered if
> anyone had any experience with this or other systems (Cambridge
> Technologies for example).
>
> I'm looking for relative ease of use as i'm not particularly skilled with
> electronics, but if there were decent installation guides anyone could
> point me towards that I could follow that would be really helpful
>
> Thanks,
>
> Allen
>

[Oldbhoy]

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Hi guys, thanks for the replies

Mike -

That would be an option just now, the only problem is I have no idea what signals go into and out of the control board to run the galvos.
I'm tempted to open it up and start playing around, but without a manual or guide i'm not sure i'd know where to begin. Like I mentioned before, i'm only partly competent around electronics just now (although most definitely keen to learn as much as I can). My fear is that I break something and then we have no 2P (instead of one that does currently work, albeit with some fiddling). I guess an optimal solution for me would be to get hold of a cheap set as Zdenek suggested and try to make that work, at least as a technical learning exercise, thus reducing the chance of breaking anything critical to zero

Incidentally, does anyone know of such a manual for the scanners in the 510? :)

Craig -

Sounds like the kind of nightmarish coding challenge I am most definitely up for :) . Weeks of banging head against a wall but worth it in the end.

Thanks again

Allen

[Benjamin Smith]

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Just as Zdenek pointed out, ScanImage 3.8.1r is a great resource for
interfacing everything with a nice user interface to boot.  Scanimage can
drive the shutters, Pockels cells, and coordinate the PMT imaging with the
scanning mirrors (it also handles zoom, bidirectional scanning, etc.). To
hook it up, you would need to find the voltage input into the X and Y
mirror driver (an oscilloscope would definitely help with this), and the
output from the PMT transimpedance amplifiers.  We use Scanimage 3.8.1r on
all of our non-resonant rigs and it is a great open-source resource,
especially if you want to integrate your own features and components.

-Ben Smith

On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 2:05 PM Allen Kelly <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Hi guys, thanks for the replies
>
> Mike -
>
> That would be an option just now, the only problem is I have no idea what
> signals go into and out of the control board to run the galvos.
> I'm tempted to open it up and start playing around, but without a manual
> or guide i'm not sure i'd know where to begin. Like I mentioned before, i'm
> only partly competent around electronics just now (although most definitely
> keen to learn as much as I can). My fear is that I break something and then
> we have no 2P (instead of one that does currently work, albeit with some
> fiddling). I guess an optimal solution for me would be to get hold of a
> cheap set as Zdenek suggested and try to make that work, at least as a
> technical learning exercise, thus reducing the chance of breaking anything
> critical to zero
>
> Incidentally, does anyone know of such a manual for the scanners in the
> 510? :)
>
> Craig -
>
> Sounds like the kind of nightmarish coding challenge I am most definitely
> up for :) . Weeks of banging head against a wall but worth it in the end.
>
> Thanks again
>
> Allen
>
>
>

--
Benjamin E. Smith, Ph. D.
Imaging Specialist, Vision Science
University of California, Berkeley
195 Life Sciences Addition
Berkeley, CA  94720-3200
Tel  [phone]
Fax [phone]
e-mail: [hidden email]
http://vision.berkeley.edu/?page_id=5635 <http://vision.berkeley.edu/>

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Hi Allen,

The galvo set from Thorlabs is 4mm set from Cambridge Technology. To make it work, you need program like other people mentioned to send the analogy signal to Galvo set and meanwhile map your PMT signal with your scan pattern to generate a image. Like Craig said, it is not easy to write the program by you own. The easiest way is using existing program such as Scan Imaging (Matlab based) or other open source (like WiscScan from LOCI). If you use the older scan image (3.8 or early), please check the scan setting since it may not match with this 4mm set and you may brake the galvo mirror. To be safe, you can also ask Vidrio to help. Good luck.

Best,
Long


Long Yan, PhD

Head of Optical Workshop and

Light Microscopy Facility Center

MAX PLANCK FLORIDA INSTITUTE

Phone:  [phone]

Email: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>

1 Max Planck Way

Jupiter FL 33458

www.maxplanckflorida.org<http://www.maxplanckflorida.org/>



________________________________
From: Confocal Microscopy List <[hidden email]> on behalf of Allen Kelly <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2019 5:05 PM
To: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: Galvo scanner for two-photon system

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Hi guys, thanks for the replies

Mike -

That would be an option just now, the only problem is I have no idea what signals go into and out of the control board to run the galvos.
I'm tempted to open it up and start playing around, but without a manual or guide i'm not sure i'd know where to begin. Like I mentioned before, i'm only partly competent around electronics just now (although most definitely keen to learn as much as I can). My fear is that I break something and then we have no 2P (instead of one that does currently work, albeit with some fiddling). I guess an optimal solution for me would be to get hold of a cheap set as Zdenek suggested and try to make that work, at least as a technical learning exercise, thus reducing the chance of breaking anything critical to zero

Incidentally, does anyone know of such a manual for the scanners in the 510? :)

Craig -

Sounds like the kind of nightmarish coding challenge I am most definitely up for :) . Weeks of banging head against a wall but worth it in the end.

Thanks again

Allen