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Incubator box heating mystery

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G. Esteban Fernandez

Incubator box heating mystery

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Hello everyone,

I have a very strage problem with an incubator box heating up. I have two
live cell imaging microscopes enclosed in PeCon incubator boxes (I think
they are Incubator XL). The microscopes are in two separate buildings. One
microscope heats up significantly past the set temp. (above 41 degrees, set
to 37 degrees) even though the temp. is being measured and reported
correctly to the electronics (confirmed by a glass thermometer). The other
microscope works perfectly and holds at 37 degrees for days. The strange
thing is that when I put the temp. control components that work well
(heater, control electronics, temp. sensor, and all cables) onto the
microscope that heats up, it still heats up, even though the components work
perfectly on the other microscope! Any ideas why this might be happening,
why the temp. control equipment works on one microscope but not on the
other?

The temp. equipment is stand-alone, not connected to a computer or to the
microscope in any way. One microscope is a Zeiss Axiovert 200M (the one
that works) and the other is a Leica DM IRE2 (heats up) in separate
buildings; the incubator boxes surrounding them are very similar. Any ideas
on this mystery are welcome.

Thanks,
Esteban

kevin-23

Re: Incubator box heating mystery

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I would check the location of the temperature sensor to make sure that it is as close as possible to the stage on the transmitted light arm.

I hope that this helps.

Kevin L. Ryan
Leica Microscopes and Imaging
W. Nuhsbaum Inc.
Shaker Heights, Ohio
1-800-368-3368
Cell: 216-401-4079

[hidden email]

www.nuhsbaum.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of G. Esteban Fernandez
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 3:02 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Incubator box heating mystery

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Hello everyone,

I have a very strage problem with an incubator box heating up. I have two
live cell imaging microscopes enclosed in PeCon incubator boxes (I think
they are Incubator XL). The microscopes are in two separate buildings. One
microscope heats up significantly past the set temp. (above 41 degrees, set
to 37 degrees) even though the temp. is being measured and reported
correctly to the electronics (confirmed by a glass thermometer). The other
microscope works perfectly and holds at 37 degrees for days. The strange
thing is that when I put the temp. control components that work well
(heater, control electronics, temp. sensor, and all cables) onto the
microscope that heats up, it still heats up, even though the components work
perfectly on the other microscope! Any ideas why this might be happening,
why the temp. control equipment works on one microscope but not on the
other?

The temp. equipment is stand-alone, not connected to a computer or to the
microscope in any way. One microscope is a Zeiss Axiovert 200M (the one
that works) and the other is a Leica DM IRE2 (heats up) in separate
buildings; the incubator boxes surrounding them are very similar. Any ideas
on this mystery are welcome.

Thanks,
Esteban

Michael Schell

Re: Incubator box heating mystery

In reply to this post by G. Esteban Fernandez

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Esteban,

We use the same box as you do, mounted on an Axiovert 200M. If you open the doors and cause the temperature to drop, then close the doors again, the temperature overshoots to about 39 degrees. Then it gradually cools back to 37. Once it reaches 37, it will remain that way for a week if you don't open the doors. I attribute the overshoot to temperature gradients inside the box, and I suspect that placement of the sensor matters. Have you tried moving the sensor to different locations i the box, and is the sensor placed differently on the two kinds of microscope you use?

Michael

Michael J. Schell, Ph.D., CIV, USUHS
Assist. Professor
Dept. of Pharmacology
Uniformed Services University
4301 Jones Bridge Rd.
Bethesda, MD 20814-3220
tel: (301) 295-3249
[hidden email]
>>> "G. Esteban Fernandez" 07/27/11 3:02 PM >>>
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To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
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Hello everyone,

I have a very strage problem with an incubator box heating up. I have two
live cell imaging microscopes enclosed in PeCon incubator boxes (I think
they are Incubator XL). The microscopes are in two separate buildings. One
microscope heats up significantly past the set temp. (above 41 degrees, set
to 37 degrees) even though the temp. is being measured and reported
correctly to the electronics (confirmed by a glass thermometer). The other
microscope works perfectly and holds at 37 degrees for days. The strange
thing is that when I put the temp. control components that work well
(heater, control electronics, temp. sensor, and all cables) onto the
microscope that heats up, it still heats up, even though the components work
perfectly on the other microscope! Any ideas why this might be happening,
why the temp. control equipment works on one microscope but not on the
other?

The temp. equipment is stand-alone, not connected to a computer or to the
microscope in any way. One microscope is a Zeiss Axiovert 200M (the one
that works) and the other is a Leica DM IRE2 (heats up) in separate
buildings; the incubator boxes surrounding them are very similar. Any ideas
on this mystery are welcome.

Thanks,
Esteban

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: None

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: None

Kristine Willis

Re: Incubator box heating mystery

In reply to this post by G. Esteban Fernandez

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What is the ambient temperature? I've seen incubators that would
not hold temp (37) because the room they were in was too warm
(adjacent to the autoclaves).

Kristine Willis, Ph.D.
Assistant Research Professor
Department of Biology, Reiss 406
Georgetown University
37th & O Sts. NW
Washington, D.C., 20057
202-687-5513

G. Esteban Fernandez

Re: Incubator box heating mystery

In reply to this post by G. Esteban Fernandez

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Thanks, everyone, for your advice. The temperature sensor is where the
manufacturer recommends, just behind the stage next to the transmitted light
arm as Kevin Ryan suggested. I've also tried other locations for good
measure, to no avail. Sounds like temperature of the room is a likely
culprit. Though it doesn't feel significantly warmer than the room where I
get good temp. control I'll check it more precisely.

Thanks again,
Esteban

Zac Arrac Atelaz

Re: Incubator box heating mystery

In reply to this post by G. Esteban Fernandez

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Esteban:

Your problem might be the changing position of the termometer of the system, one interesting trial will be putting the overheating system in the non overheating system, to see if is that part fails or remain working as the trial you make the way around.

If your system is failing you should consider one incubator as the one we have, this is not the huge box making the microscope unreachable, it is the size of the insert in the stage and it has 4 points heating your sample, the cover, the objective used, and the water heater, we have never had a temperature overshoot as the mentioned by Michael, even if we open doors, or change room temperature ( recorded from 18 to 27°C) the shift in temperature observed trough time in the incubator is about 0.5°C over a 25h period. In such long experiments we have people reviewing samples as you dont want to let the confocal working if the sample has suffered unwanted changes, by the way the brand of the one we have is a INU - Tokai hit incubator.

I hope this helps a little.

Gabriel Orozco Hoyuela

> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 12:01:32 -0700
> From: [hidden email]
> Subject: Incubator box heating mystery
> To: [hidden email]
>
> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> *****
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I have a very strage problem with an incubator box heating up. I have two
> live cell imaging microscopes enclosed in PeCon incubator boxes (I think
> they are Incubator XL). The microscopes are in two separate buildings. One
> microscope heats up significantly past the set temp. (above 41 degrees, set
> to 37 degrees) even though the temp. is being measured and reported
> correctly to the electronics (confirmed by a glass thermometer). The other
> microscope works perfectly and holds at 37 degrees for days. The strange
> thing is that when I put the temp. control components that work well
> (heater, control electronics, temp. sensor, and all cables) onto the
> microscope that heats up, it still heats up, even though the components work
> perfectly on the other microscope! Any ideas why this might be happening,
> why the temp. control equipment works on one microscope but not on the
> other?
>
> The temp. equipment is stand-alone, not connected to a computer or to the
> microscope in any way. One microscope is a Zeiss Axiovert 200M (the one
> that works) and the other is a Leica DM IRE2 (heats up) in separate
> buildings; the incubator boxes surrounding them are very similar. Any ideas
> on this mystery are welcome.
>
> Thanks,
> Esteban

Craig Brideau

Re: Incubator box heating mystery

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We had quite a bit of trouble with our room ventilation until quite
recently. We purchased an inexpensive USB datalogger to continuously record
temperature and humidity in the room. It picked up large swings in
temperature and humidity that the ventilation system was supposed to
prevent. The data we collected finally convinced the building contractor to
install proper humidity controls and hardware for our room. I recommend
that every facility should keep logs of temperature and humidity. The
loggers are quite cheap now, and can be programmed, detached from the
computer, and left unattended for months. We would move ours around the
room to get a feel for any gradients, heat loads from equipment, etc.

Craig

On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Zac Arrac Atelaz <[hidden email]>wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> *****
>
>
> Esteban:
>
> Your problem might be the changing position of the termometer of the
> system, one interesting trial will be putting the overheating system in the
> non overheating system, to see if is that part fails or remain working as
> the trial you make the way around.
>
> If your system is failing you should consider one incubator as the one we
> have, this is not the huge box making the microscope unreachable, it is the
> size of the insert in the stage and it has 4 points heating your sample, the
> cover, the objective used, and the water heater, we have never had a
> temperature overshoot as the mentioned by Michael, even if we open doors, or
> change room temperature ( recorded from 18 to 27°C) the shift in temperature
> observed trough time in the incubator is about 0.5°C over a 25h period. In
> such long experiments we have people reviewing samples as you dont want to
> let the confocal working if the sample has suffered unwanted changes, by the
> way the brand of the one we have is a INU - Tokai hit incubator.
>
> I hope this helps a little.
>
> Gabriel Orozco Hoyuela
>
>
> > Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 12:01:32 -0700
> > From: [hidden email]
> > Subject: Incubator box heating mystery
> > To: [hidden email]
> >
> > *****
> > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> > http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> > *****
> >
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > I have a very strage problem with an incubator box heating up. I have two
> > live cell imaging microscopes enclosed in PeCon incubator boxes (I think
> > they are Incubator XL). The microscopes are in two separate buildings.
> One
> > microscope heats up significantly past the set temp. (above 41 degrees,
> set
> > to 37 degrees) even though the temp. is being measured and reported
> > correctly to the electronics (confirmed by a glass thermometer). The
> other
> > microscope works perfectly and holds at 37 degrees for days. The strange
> > thing is that when I put the temp. control components that work well
> > (heater, control electronics, temp. sensor, and all cables) onto the
> > microscope that heats up, it still heats up, even though the components
> work
> > perfectly on the other microscope! Any ideas why this might be happening,
> > why the temp. control equipment works on one microscope but not on the
> > other?
> >
> > The temp. equipment is stand-alone, not connected to a computer or to the
> > microscope in any way. One microscope is a Zeiss Axiovert 200M (the one
> > that works) and the other is a Leica DM IRE2 (heats up) in separate
> > buildings; the incubator boxes surrounding them are very similar. Any
> ideas
> > on this mystery are welcome.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Esteban
>
>

Graham Wright

Re: Incubator box heating mystery

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*****

I agree with Craig that the temperature and humidity loggers give you
a real insight into what's going on with the aircon in your rooms
(particularly over the weekends in our case). I'd be interested though
in what you think are reasonable limits for the tolerable fluctuations
in both temperature and humidity. We are constantly battling with both
in Singapore!

Regards,
Graham

---
Graham Wright, PhD
Microscopy Unit Manager

Institute of Medical Biology
8A Biomedical Grove, #06-06 Immunos, Singapore 138648

E: [hidden email]
W: http://www.imb.a-star.edu.sg/imu/

On 29 July 2011 02:51, Craig Brideau <[hidden email]> wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> *****
>
> We had quite a bit of trouble with our room ventilation until quite
> recently. We purchased an inexpensive USB datalogger to continuously record
> temperature and humidity in the room. It picked up large swings in
> temperature and humidity that the ventilation system was supposed to
> prevent. The data we collected finally convinced the building contractor to
> install proper humidity controls and hardware for our room. I recommend
> that every facility should keep logs of temperature and humidity. The
> loggers are quite cheap now, and can be programmed, detached from the
> computer, and left unattended for months. We would move ours around the
> room to get a feel for any gradients, heat loads from equipment, etc.
>
> Craig
>
> On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Zac Arrac Atelaz <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> *****
>> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
>> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
>> *****
>>
>>
>> Esteban:
>>
>> Your problem might be the changing position of the termometer of the
>> system, one interesting trial will be putting the overheating system in the
>> non overheating system, to see if is that part fails or remain working as
>> the trial you make the way around.
>>
>> If your system is failing you should consider one incubator as the one we
>> have, this is not the huge box making the microscope unreachable, it is the
>> size of the insert in the stage and it has 4 points heating your sample, the
>> cover, the objective used, and the water heater, we have never had a
>> temperature overshoot as the mentioned by Michael, even if we open doors, or
>> change room temperature ( recorded from 18 to 27°C) the shift in temperature
>> observed trough time in the incubator is about 0.5°C over a 25h period. In
>> such long experiments we have people reviewing samples as you dont want to
>> let the confocal working if the sample has suffered unwanted changes, by the
>> way the brand of the one we have is a INU - Tokai hit incubator.
>>
>> I hope this helps a little.
>>
>> Gabriel Orozco Hoyuela
>>
>>
>> > Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 12:01:32 -0700
>> > From: [hidden email]
>> > Subject: Incubator box heating mystery
>> > To: [hidden email]
>> >
>> > *****
>> > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
>> > http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
>> > *****
>> >
>> > Hello everyone,
>> >
>> > I have a very strage problem with an incubator box heating up. I have two
>> > live cell imaging microscopes enclosed in PeCon incubator boxes (I think
>> > they are Incubator XL). The microscopes are in two separate buildings.
>> One
>> > microscope heats up significantly past the set temp. (above 41 degrees,
>> set
>> > to 37 degrees) even though the temp. is being measured and reported
>> > correctly to the electronics (confirmed by a glass thermometer). The
>> other
>> > microscope works perfectly and holds at 37 degrees for days. The strange
>> > thing is that when I put the temp. control components that work well
>> > (heater, control electronics, temp. sensor, and all cables) onto the
>> > microscope that heats up, it still heats up, even though the components
>> work
>> > perfectly on the other microscope! Any ideas why this might be happening,
>> > why the temp. control equipment works on one microscope but not on the
>> > other?
>> >
>> > The temp. equipment is stand-alone, not connected to a computer or to the
>> > microscope in any way. One microscope is a Zeiss Axiovert 200M (the one
>> > that works) and the other is a Leica DM IRE2 (heats up) in separate
>> > buildings; the incubator boxes surrounding them are very similar. Any
>> ideas
>> > on this mystery are welcome.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Esteban
>>
>>
>

Craig Brideau

Re: Incubator box heating mystery

*****
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*****

I've received some requests for recommended brands of dataloggers, so I'll
post it here rather then send out a bunch of individual emails:

A really cheap one is this Lascar Easylogger:

http://www.microdaq.com/lascar/humidity/usb-humidity-logger.php

A colleague bought a 5-pack of them and scattered them around her labs. You
connect them to a computer to charge and program them, then disconnect them
and put them into your lab(s) at various places. When you need the
temp/humidity log you plug them back into the computer and download the
records.
They have a higher accuracy version if you need to be more precise:

http://www.microdaq.com/lascar/humidity/high-accuracy-temp-rh-logger.php

For my own lab I have an MSR 145 IP60 which is very accurate and can operate
unattended for many, many months. It has a much larger memory than the
Lascar model (2M vs 16k points), but if you are checking your logger
frequently and/or logging at long intervals this will be less of an issue.
It is very small so you can put it easily in tight places, but it is quite
a bit more expensive than the Lascar one. I actually leave it shoved in a
Thorlabs XT34 rail that is holding some of the optics on my optical table
next to our Ti:Saph. I usually check it a few times a year.

http://www.msr.ch/en/product/msr145.php

If you need several loggers to cover multiple spots or multiple labs I
recommend one of the Lascar 5-packs. If you only want/need a single logger
than the MSR one is really nice, especially since it can log for a very long
time due to its larger memory, at very short intervals. I leave mine set to
record temperature and humidity every half-hour. Some versions of the MSR
come with analog inputs as well, so you can patch it into other sensors or
status lines on your equipment if you want to monitor something else. Again
though, it is much more expensive than the Lascar one so it may be overkill.
If you only log once per hour then you'll have nearly 1 year endurance with
the Lascar one.

I hope this helps!

Craig

On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 6:59 PM, Graham Wright <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> *****
>
> I agree with Craig that the temperature and humidity loggers give you
> a real insight into what's going on with the aircon in your rooms
> (particularly over the weekends in our case). I'd be interested though
> in what you think are reasonable limits for the tolerable fluctuations
> in both temperature and humidity. We are constantly battling with both
> in Singapore!
>
> Regards,
> Graham
>
> ---
> Graham Wright, PhD
> Microscopy Unit Manager
>
> Institute of Medical Biology
> 8A Biomedical Grove, #06-06 Immunos, Singapore 138648
>
> E: [hidden email]
> W: http://www.imb.a-star.edu.sg/imu/
>
>
>
> On 29 July 2011 02:51, Craig Brideau <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > *****
> > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> > http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> > *****
> >
> > We had quite a bit of trouble with our room ventilation until quite
> > recently. We purchased an inexpensive USB datalogger to continuously
> record
> > temperature and humidity in the room. It picked up large swings in
> > temperature and humidity that the ventilation system was supposed to
> > prevent. The data we collected finally convinced the building contractor
> to
> > install proper humidity controls and hardware for our room. I recommend
> > that every facility should keep logs of temperature and humidity. The
> > loggers are quite cheap now, and can be programmed, detached from the
> > computer, and left unattended for months. We would move ours around the
> > room to get a feel for any gradients, heat loads from equipment, etc.
> >
> > Craig
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Zac Arrac Atelaz <[hidden email]
> >wrote:
> >
> >> *****
> >> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> >> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> >> *****
> >>
> >>
> >> Esteban:
> >>
> >> Your problem might be the changing position of the termometer of the
> >> system, one interesting trial will be putting the overheating system in
> the
> >> non overheating system, to see if is that part fails or remain working
> as
> >> the trial you make the way around.
> >>
> >> If your system is failing you should consider one incubator as the one
> we
> >> have, this is not the huge box making the microscope unreachable, it is
> the
> >> size of the insert in the stage and it has 4 points heating your sample,
> the
> >> cover, the objective used, and the water heater, we have never had a
> >> temperature overshoot as the mentioned by Michael, even if we open
> doors, or
> >> change room temperature ( recorded from 18 to 27°C) the shift in
> temperature
> >> observed trough time in the incubator is about 0.5°C over a 25h period.
> In
> >> such long experiments we have people reviewing samples as you dont want
> to
> >> let the confocal working if the sample has suffered unwanted changes, by
> the
> >> way the brand of the one we have is a INU - Tokai hit incubator.
> >>
> >> I hope this helps a little.
> >>
> >> Gabriel Orozco Hoyuela
> >>
> >>
> >> > Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 12:01:32 -0700
> >> > From: [hidden email]
> >> > Subject: Incubator box heating mystery
> >> > To: [hidden email]
> >> >
> >> > *****
> >> > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> >> > http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> >> > *****
> >> >
> >> > Hello everyone,
> >> >
> >> > I have a very strage problem with an incubator box heating up. I have
> two
> >> > live cell imaging microscopes enclosed in PeCon incubator boxes (I
> think
> >> > they are Incubator XL). The microscopes are in two separate buildings.
> >> One
> >> > microscope heats up significantly past the set temp. (above 41
> degrees,
> >> set
> >> > to 37 degrees) even though the temp. is being measured and reported
> >> > correctly to the electronics (confirmed by a glass thermometer). The
> >> other
> >> > microscope works perfectly and holds at 37 degrees for days. The
> strange
> >> > thing is that when I put the temp. control components that work well
> >> > (heater, control electronics, temp. sensor, and all cables) onto the
> >> > microscope that heats up, it still heats up, even though the
> components
> >> work
> >> > perfectly on the other microscope! Any ideas why this might be
> happening,
> >> > why the temp. control equipment works on one microscope but not on the
> >> > other?
> >> >
> >> > The temp. equipment is stand-alone, not connected to a computer or to
> the
> >> > microscope in any way. One microscope is a Zeiss Axiovert 200M (the
> one
> >> > that works) and the other is a Leica DM IRE2 (heats up) in separate
> >> > buildings; the incubator boxes surrounding them are very similar. Any
> >> ideas
> >> > on this mystery are welcome.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> > Esteban
> >>
> >>
> >
>

Craig Brideau

Re: Incubator box heating mystery

In reply to this post by Graham Wright

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
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*****

It's hard to get, but really you want +/-1 degree C and humidity <35%. This
is particularly important if you have a lot of free-space optics. Most
fiber-coupled systems can tolerate some temperature change, but free-space
beams are guided by steering mirrors. Temperature changes can cause the
mirror mounts to flex which misaligns your beam. Additionally, Ti:Saph
lasers used in two-photon HATE humidity. We're in Calgary, Canada, which is
very, very dry in the winter. We can run our lasers without a dry air or
nitrogen purge at 925nm. In the summer though, the humidity gets quite high
and purging becomes necessary. The building contractor just finished
installing a humidity control system for our lab last week, so we will see
how things go. Thus far it seems to be holding the humidity under about
37%. I'll wait a couple weeks and then check my datalogger. @:-)

Craig

On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 6:59 PM, Graham Wright <
[hidden email]> wrote:

Zac Arrac Atelaz

Re: Incubator box heating mystery

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
*****

Adding to Craig explanation, and something I remember after his explanation is that the specs for optical microscopes are mainly evaluated in a small range between 220 and 628 meters above sea level, so if you take the system to a higher altitude the heat dispersion might be slower than originally calculated for the system, this is obviated some times, as the effect is not too big but this might have some effect on your results.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/air-altitude-pressure-d_462.html

Another important thing, if your humidity is too high you can keep it below 35% safely, but if the region is too dry and you have a drying device working and humidity suddenly goes below 30% your possibilities of having ESD goes trough the roof, so if you want to be safe, my two cents is that you should try to keep humidity in the middle of the range given by the factory, far away of the "safety operation limits", because when you are walking in the limit, you can easily fall out if it, and the fail when temp is higher than asked is similar to the trouble when humidity goes below the limit asked, your drying system is not going to hudify back up.

http://www.esdsystems.com/whitepapers/wp_humidity.html

The links have more information on the matters exposed

Gabriel Orozco Hoyuela

> Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 20:39:45 -0600
> From: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: Incubator box heating mystery
> To: [hidden email]
>
> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> *****
>
> It's hard to get, but really you want +/-1 degree C and humidity <35%. This
> is particularly important if you have a lot of free-space optics. Most
> fiber-coupled systems can tolerate some temperature change, but free-space
> beams are guided by steering mirrors. Temperature changes can cause the
> mirror mounts to flex which misaligns your beam. Additionally, Ti:Saph
> lasers used in two-photon HATE humidity. We're in Calgary, Canada, which is
> very, very dry in the winter. We can run our lasers without a dry air or
> nitrogen purge at 925nm. In the summer though, the humidity gets quite high
> and purging becomes necessary. The building contractor just finished
> installing a humidity control system for our lab last week, so we will see
> how things go. Thus far it seems to be holding the humidity under about
> 37%. I'll wait a couple weeks and then check my datalogger. @:-)
>
> Craig
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 6:59 PM, Graham Wright <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > *****
> > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> > http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> > *****
> >
> > I agree with Craig that the temperature and humidity loggers give you
> > a real insight into what's going on with the aircon in your rooms
> > (particularly over the weekends in our case). I'd be interested though
> > in what you think are reasonable limits for the tolerable fluctuations
> > in both temperature and humidity. We are constantly battling with both
> > in Singapore!
> >
> > Regards,
> > Graham
> >
> > ---
> > Graham Wright, PhD
> > Microscopy Unit Manager
> >
> > Institute of Medical Biology
> > 8A Biomedical Grove, #06-06 Immunos, Singapore 138648
> >
> > E: [hidden email]
> > W: http://www.imb.a-star.edu.sg/imu/
> >
> >
> >
> > On 29 July 2011 02:51, Craig Brideau <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > *****
> > > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> > > http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> > > *****
> > >
> > > We had quite a bit of trouble with our room ventilation until quite
> > > recently. We purchased an inexpensive USB datalogger to continuously
> > record
> > > temperature and humidity in the room. It picked up large swings in
> > > temperature and humidity that the ventilation system was supposed to
> > > prevent. The data we collected finally convinced the building contractor
> > to
> > > install proper humidity controls and hardware for our room. I recommend
> > > that every facility should keep logs of temperature and humidity. The
> > > loggers are quite cheap now, and can be programmed, detached from the
> > > computer, and left unattended for months. We would move ours around the
> > > room to get a feel for any gradients, heat loads from equipment, etc.
> > >
> > > Craig
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Zac Arrac Atelaz <[hidden email]
> > >wrote:
> > >
> > >> *****
> > >> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> > >> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> > >> *****
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Esteban:
> > >>
> > >> Your problem might be the changing position of the termometer of the
> > >> system, one interesting trial will be putting the overheating system in
> > the
> > >> non overheating system, to see if is that part fails or remain working
> > as
> > >> the trial you make the way around.
> > >>
> > >> If your system is failing you should consider one incubator as the one
> > we
> > >> have, this is not the huge box making the microscope unreachable, it is
> > the
> > >> size of the insert in the stage and it has 4 points heating your sample,
> > the
> > >> cover, the objective used, and the water heater, we have never had a
> > >> temperature overshoot as the mentioned by Michael, even if we open
> > doors, or
> > >> change room temperature ( recorded from 18 to 27°C) the shift in
> > temperature
> > >> observed trough time in the incubator is about 0.5°C over a 25h period.
> > In
> > >> such long experiments we have people reviewing samples as you dont want
> > to
> > >> let the confocal working if the sample has suffered unwanted changes, by
> > the
> > >> way the brand of the one we have is a INU - Tokai hit incubator.
> > >>
> > >> I hope this helps a little.
> > >>
> > >> Gabriel Orozco Hoyuela
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 12:01:32 -0700
> > >> > From: [hidden email]
> > >> > Subject: Incubator box heating mystery
> > >> > To: [hidden email]
> > >> >
> > >> > *****
> > >> > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> > >> > http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> > >> > *****
> > >> >
> > >> > Hello everyone,
> > >> >
> > >> > I have a very strage problem with an incubator box heating up. I have
> > two
> > >> > live cell imaging microscopes enclosed in PeCon incubator boxes (I
> > think
> > >> > they are Incubator XL). The microscopes are in two separate buildings.
> > >> One
> > >> > microscope heats up significantly past the set temp. (above 41
> > degrees,
> > >> set
> > >> > to 37 degrees) even though the temp. is being measured and reported
> > >> > correctly to the electronics (confirmed by a glass thermometer). The
> > >> other
> > >> > microscope works perfectly and holds at 37 degrees for days. The
> > strange
> > >> > thing is that when I put the temp. control components that work well
> > >> > (heater, control electronics, temp. sensor, and all cables) onto the
> > >> > microscope that heats up, it still heats up, even though the
> > components
> > >> work
> > >> > perfectly on the other microscope! Any ideas why this might be
> > happening,
> > >> > why the temp. control equipment works on one microscope but not on the
> > >> > other?
> > >> >
> > >> > The temp. equipment is stand-alone, not connected to a computer or to
> > the
> > >> > microscope in any way. One microscope is a Zeiss Axiovert 200M (the
> > one
> > >> > that works) and the other is a Leica DM IRE2 (heats up) in separate
> > >> > buildings; the incubator boxes surrounding them are very similar. Any
> > >> ideas
> > >> > on this mystery are welcome.
> > >> >
> > >> > Thanks,
> > >> > Esteban
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >

Craig Brideau

Re: Incubator box heating mystery

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
*****

20% is the typical static threshold, so really you do want to keep it
between 35 and 20%. Our humidity only drops below 20% in the winter, and
our metal optical tables seem to keep it under control anyway. Your mileage
may vary though, but overall just keep an eye on your humidity and
temperature so you can correlate any problems with the environment changing
(or not).

Craig

On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 10:16 PM, Zac Arrac Atelaz <[hidden email]>wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> *****
>
>
> Adding to Craig explanation, and something I remember after his explanation
> is that the specs for optical microscopes are mainly evaluated in a small
> range between 220 and 628 meters above sea level, so if you take the system
> to a higher altitude the heat dispersion might be slower than originally
> calculated for the system, this is obviated some times, as the effect is not
> too big but this might have some effect on your results.
>
> http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/air-altitude-pressure-d_462.html
>
> Another important thing, if your humidity is too high you can keep it below
> 35% safely, but if the region is too dry and you have a drying device
> working and humidity suddenly goes below 30% your possibilities of having
> ESD goes trough the roof, so if you want to be safe, my two cents is that
> you should try to keep humidity in the middle of the range given by the
> factory, far away of the "safety operation limits", because when you are
> walking in the limit, you can easily fall out if it, and the fail when temp
> is higher than asked is similar to the trouble when humidity goes below the
> limit asked, your drying system is not going to hudify back up.
>
> http://www.esdsystems.com/whitepapers/wp_humidity.html
>
> The links have more information on the matters exposed
>
> Gabriel Orozco Hoyuela
>
>
>
> > Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 20:39:45 -0600
> > From: [hidden email]
> > Subject: Re: Incubator box heating mystery
> > To: [hidden email]
> >
> > *****
> > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> > http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> > *****
> >
> > It's hard to get, but really you want +/-1 degree C and humidity <35%.
> This
> > is particularly important if you have a lot of free-space optics. Most
> > fiber-coupled systems can tolerate some temperature change, but
> free-space
> > beams are guided by steering mirrors. Temperature changes can cause the
> > mirror mounts to flex which misaligns your beam. Additionally, Ti:Saph
> > lasers used in two-photon HATE humidity. We're in Calgary, Canada, which
> is
> > very, very dry in the winter. We can run our lasers without a dry air or
> > nitrogen purge at 925nm. In the summer though, the humidity gets quite
> high
> > and purging becomes necessary. The building contractor just finished
> > installing a humidity control system for our lab last week, so we will
> see
> > how things go. Thus far it seems to be holding the humidity under about
> > 37%. I'll wait a couple weeks and then check my datalogger. @:-)
> >
> > Craig
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 6:59 PM, Graham Wright <
> > [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > *****
> > > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> > > http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> > > *****
> > >
> > > I agree with Craig that the temperature and humidity loggers give you
> > > a real insight into what's going on with the aircon in your rooms
> > > (particularly over the weekends in our case). I'd be interested though
> > > in what you think are reasonable limits for the tolerable fluctuations
> > > in both temperature and humidity. We are constantly battling with both
> > > in Singapore!
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Graham
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Graham Wright, PhD
> > > Microscopy Unit Manager
> > >
> > > Institute of Medical Biology
> > > 8A Biomedical Grove, #06-06 Immunos, Singapore 138648
> > >
> > > E: [hidden email]
> > > W: http://www.imb.a-star.edu.sg/imu/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 29 July 2011 02:51, Craig Brideau <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > *****
> > > > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> > > > http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> > > > *****
> > > >
> > > > We had quite a bit of trouble with our room ventilation until quite
> > > > recently. We purchased an inexpensive USB datalogger to continuously
> > > record
> > > > temperature and humidity in the room. It picked up large swings in
> > > > temperature and humidity that the ventilation system was supposed to
> > > > prevent. The data we collected finally convinced the building
> contractor
> > > to
> > > > install proper humidity controls and hardware for our room. I
> recommend
> > > > that every facility should keep logs of temperature and humidity. The
> > > > loggers are quite cheap now, and can be programmed, detached from the
> > > > computer, and left unattended for months. We would move ours around
> the
> > > > room to get a feel for any gradients, heat loads from equipment, etc.
> > > >
> > > > Craig
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Zac Arrac Atelaz <
> [hidden email]
> > > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> *****
> > > >> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> > > >> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> > > >> *****
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Esteban:
> > > >>
> > > >> Your problem might be the changing position of the termometer of the
> > > >> system, one interesting trial will be putting the overheating system
> in
> > > the
> > > >> non overheating system, to see if is that part fails or remain
> working
> > > as
> > > >> the trial you make the way around.
> > > >>
> > > >> If your system is failing you should consider one incubator as the
> one
> > > we
> > > >> have, this is not the huge box making the microscope unreachable, it
> is
> > > the
> > > >> size of the insert in the stage and it has 4 points heating your
> sample,
> > > the
> > > >> cover, the objective used, and the water heater, we have never had a
> > > >> temperature overshoot as the mentioned by Michael, even if we open
> > > doors, or
> > > >> change room temperature ( recorded from 18 to 27°C) the shift in
> > > temperature
> > > >> observed trough time in the incubator is about 0.5°C over a 25h
> period.
> > > In
> > > >> such long experiments we have people reviewing samples as you dont
> want
> > > to
> > > >> let the confocal working if the sample has suffered unwanted
> changes, by
> > > the
> > > >> way the brand of the one we have is a INU - Tokai hit incubator.
> > > >>
> > > >> I hope this helps a little.
> > > >>
> > > >> Gabriel Orozco Hoyuela
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> > Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 12:01:32 -0700
> > > >> > From: [hidden email]
> > > >> > Subject: Incubator box heating mystery
> > > >> > To: [hidden email]
> > > >> >
> > > >> > *****
> > > >> > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> > > >> > http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> > > >> > *****
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Hello everyone,
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I have a very strage problem with an incubator box heating up. I
> have
> > > two
> > > >> > live cell imaging microscopes enclosed in PeCon incubator boxes (I
> > > think
> > > >> > they are Incubator XL). The microscopes are in two separate
> buildings.
> > > >> One
> > > >> > microscope heats up significantly past the set temp. (above 41
> > > degrees,
> > > >> set
> > > >> > to 37 degrees) even though the temp. is being measured and
> reported
> > > >> > correctly to the electronics (confirmed by a glass thermometer).
> The
> > > >> other
> > > >> > microscope works perfectly and holds at 37 degrees for days. The
> > > strange
> > > >> > thing is that when I put the temp. control components that work
> well
> > > >> > (heater, control electronics, temp. sensor, and all cables) onto
> the
> > > >> > microscope that heats up, it still heats up, even though the
> > > components
> > > >> work
> > > >> > perfectly on the other microscope! Any ideas why this might be
> > > happening,
> > > >> > why the temp. control equipment works on one microscope but not on
> the
> > > >> > other?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > The temp. equipment is stand-alone, not connected to a computer or
> to
> > > the
> > > >> > microscope in any way. One microscope is a Zeiss Axiovert 200M
> (the
> > > one
> > > >> > that works) and the other is a Leica DM IRE2 (heats up) in
> separate
> > > >> > buildings; the incubator boxes surrounding them are very similar.
> Any
> > > >> ideas
> > > >> > on this mystery are welcome.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Thanks,
> > > >> > Esteban
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
>
>

G. Esteban Fernandez

Re: Incubator box heating mystery

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
*****

Turns out the room's temp. might be the problem if my box operates at least
10 degreesC above ambient. Where the incubator performs well the room is 20
degreesC whereas the "hot" room is 26.5, near what some suggested might be
the max. limit for operation at 37. I put the "malfunctioning" equipment in
the colder room as Gabriel suggested and, as expected, it works fine.
Hopefully my facilities folks can lower the temp in the warmer room. I
purchased the data logger Craig Brideau recommended to see how it plays out
over time. Thanks again to everyone for your advice.

-Esteban

On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 11:13 AM, Craig Brideau <[hidden email]>wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> *****
>
> 20% is the typical static threshold, so really you do want to keep it
> between 35 and 20%. Our humidity only drops below 20% in the winter, and
> our metal optical tables seem to keep it under control anyway. Your
> mileage
> may vary though, but overall just keep an eye on your humidity and
> temperature so you can correlate any problems with the environment changing
> (or not).
>
> Craig
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 10:16 PM, Zac Arrac Atelaz <[hidden email]
> >wrote:
>
> > *****
> > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> > http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> > *****
> >
> >
> > Adding to Craig explanation, and something I remember after his
> explanation
> > is that the specs for optical microscopes are mainly evaluated in a small
> > range between 220 and 628 meters above sea level, so if you take the
> system
> > to a higher altitude the heat dispersion might be slower than originally
> > calculated for the system, this is obviated some times, as the effect is
> not
> > too big but this might have some effect on your results.
> >
> > http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/air-altitude-pressure-d_462.html
> >
> > Another important thing, if your humidity is too high you can keep it
> below
> > 35% safely, but if the region is too dry and you have a drying device
> > working and humidity suddenly goes below 30% your possibilities of having
> > ESD goes trough the roof, so if you want to be safe, my two cents is that
> > you should try to keep humidity in the middle of the range given by the
> > factory, far away of the "safety operation limits", because when you are
> > walking in the limit, you can easily fall out if it, and the fail when
> temp
> > is higher than asked is similar to the trouble when humidity goes below
> the
> > limit asked, your drying system is not going to hudify back up.
> >
> > http://www.esdsystems.com/whitepapers/wp_humidity.html
> >
> > The links have more information on the matters exposed
> >
> > Gabriel Orozco Hoyuela
> >
> >
> >
> > > Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 20:39:45 -0600
> > > From: [hidden email]
> > > Subject: Re: Incubator box heating mystery
> > > To: [hidden email]
> > >
> > > *****
> > > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> > > http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> > > *****
> > >
> > > It's hard to get, but really you want +/-1 degree C and humidity <35%.
> > This
> > > is particularly important if you have a lot of free-space optics. Most
> > > fiber-coupled systems can tolerate some temperature change, but
> > free-space
> > > beams are guided by steering mirrors. Temperature changes can cause the
> > > mirror mounts to flex which misaligns your beam. Additionally, Ti:Saph
> > > lasers used in two-photon HATE humidity. We're in Calgary, Canada,
> which
> > is
> > > very, very dry in the winter. We can run our lasers without a dry air
> or
> > > nitrogen purge at 925nm. In the summer though, the humidity gets quite
> > high
> > > and purging becomes necessary. The building contractor just finished
> > > installing a humidity control system for our lab last week, so we will
> > see
> > > how things go. Thus far it seems to be holding the humidity under about
> > > 37%. I'll wait a couple weeks and then check my datalogger. @:-)
> > >
> > > Craig
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 6:59 PM, Graham Wright <
> > > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > *****
> > > > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> > > > http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> > > > *****
> > > >
> > > > I agree with Craig that the temperature and humidity loggers give you
> > > > a real insight into what's going on with the aircon in your rooms
> > > > (particularly over the weekends in our case). I'd be interested
> though
> > > > in what you think are reasonable limits for the tolerable
> fluctuations
> > > > in both temperature and humidity. We are constantly battling with
> both
> > > > in Singapore!
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Graham
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > Graham Wright, PhD
> > > > Microscopy Unit Manager
> > > >
> > > > Institute of Medical Biology
> > > > 8A Biomedical Grove, #06-06 Immunos, Singapore 138648
> > > >
> > > > E: [hidden email]
> > > > W: http://www.imb.a-star.edu.sg/imu/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 29 July 2011 02:51, Craig Brideau <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > > > > *****
> > > > > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> > > > > http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> > > > > *****
> > > > >
> > > > > We had quite a bit of trouble with our room ventilation until quite
> > > > > recently. We purchased an inexpensive USB datalogger to
> continuously
> > > > record
> > > > > temperature and humidity in the room. It picked up large swings in
> > > > > temperature and humidity that the ventilation system was supposed
> to
> > > > > prevent. The data we collected finally convinced the building
> > contractor
> > > > to
> > > > > install proper humidity controls and hardware for our room. I
> > recommend
> > > > > that every facility should keep logs of temperature and humidity.
> The
> > > > > loggers are quite cheap now, and can be programmed, detached from
> the
> > > > > computer, and left unattended for months. We would move ours around
> > the
> > > > > room to get a feel for any gradients, heat loads from equipment,
> etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > Craig
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Zac Arrac Atelaz <
> > [hidden email]
> > > > >wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> *****
> > > > >> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> > > > >> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> > > > >> *****
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Esteban:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Your problem might be the changing position of the termometer of
> the
> > > > >> system, one interesting trial will be putting the overheating
> system
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > >> non overheating system, to see if is that part fails or remain
> > working
> > > > as
> > > > >> the trial you make the way around.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> If your system is failing you should consider one incubator as the
> > one
> > > > we
> > > > >> have, this is not the huge box making the microscope unreachable,
> it
> > is
> > > > the
> > > > >> size of the insert in the stage and it has 4 points heating your
> > sample,
> > > > the
> > > > >> cover, the objective used, and the water heater, we have never had
> a
> > > > >> temperature overshoot as the mentioned by Michael, even if we open
> > > > doors, or
> > > > >> change room temperature ( recorded from 18 to 27°C) the shift in
> > > > temperature
> > > > >> observed trough time in the incubator is about 0.5°C over a 25h
> > period.
> > > > In
> > > > >> such long experiments we have people reviewing samples as you dont
> > want
> > > > to
> > > > >> let the confocal working if the sample has suffered unwanted
> > changes, by
> > > > the
> > > > >> way the brand of the one we have is a INU - Tokai hit incubator.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I hope this helps a little.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Gabriel Orozco Hoyuela
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 12:01:32 -0700
> > > > >> > From: [hidden email]
> > > > >> > Subject: Incubator box heating mystery
> > > > >> > To: [hidden email]
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > *****
> > > > >> > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go
> to:
> > > > >> > http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> > > > >> > *****
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Hello everyone,
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > I have a very strage problem with an incubator box heating up. I
> > have
> > > > two
> > > > >> > live cell imaging microscopes enclosed in PeCon incubator boxes
> (I
> > > > think
> > > > >> > they are Incubator XL). The microscopes are in two separate
> > buildings.
> > > > >> One
> > > > >> > microscope heats up significantly past the set temp. (above 41
> > > > degrees,
> > > > >> set
> > > > >> > to 37 degrees) even though the temp. is being measured and
> > reported
> > > > >> > correctly to the electronics (confirmed by a glass thermometer).
> > The
> > > > >> other
> > > > >> > microscope works perfectly and holds at 37 degrees for days. The
> > > > strange
> > > > >> > thing is that when I put the temp. control components that work
> > well
> > > > >> > (heater, control electronics, temp. sensor, and all cables) onto
> > the
> > > > >> > microscope that heats up, it still heats up, even though the
> > > > components
> > > > >> work
> > > > >> > perfectly on the other microscope! Any ideas why this might be
> > > > happening,
> > > > >> > why the temp. control equipment works on one microscope but not
> on
> > the
> > > > >> > other?
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > The temp. equipment is stand-alone, not connected to a computer
> or
> > to
> > > > the
> > > > >> > microscope in any way. One microscope is a Zeiss Axiovert 200M
> > (the
> > > > one
> > > > >> > that works) and the other is a Leica DM IRE2 (heats up) in
> > separate
> > > > >> > buildings; the incubator boxes surrounding them are very
> similar.
> > Any
> > > > >> ideas
> > > > >> > on this mystery are welcome.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Thanks,
> > > > >> > Esteban
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
>