Andrew York |
*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy ***** In the papers I've read, Gustafsson et al. give excellent descriptions of their processing algorithms, but I haven't stumbled on any actual processing code, source or compiled, which turns raw SIM data into superresolution images. I've rolled my own just for fun, but it would be nice to compare to the 'gold standard'. Is this code available somewhere that I'm missing? If not, is someone working on this, or does everyone who builds a SIM just roll their own? |
Lutz Schaefer |
*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy ***** Andrew, I do not think that there can ever be a "gold standard". As there are components needed within the reconstruction that are essentially ill-posed, a multitude of algorithmic solutions approaching the same problem, can be utilized. While other methods that were not originally considered by Mats Gustafsson, such as reconstruction in space domain (e.g. Stallinga et. al) give algorithmic advantages within some components, the original reciprocal space methods can't, it is hard to create a general processing pipeline that take advantage of all variants. However, you might read from time to time about advances on critical aspects, such as "Structured illumination microscopy: artefact analysis and reduction utilizing a parameter optimization approach", (L.H. Schaefer et. al, 2004) or more recently: "Phase Optimization for structured illumination microscopy" (Kay Wicker et. al, 2013). For these reasons, you will find that almost everyone who wants to process SIM data in a research context will do it on their own. There are just too many optimization variables, forbidding a general "gold standard" solution. For Mats classical academic implementations (Matlab, etc.) that you mention, I am sure you can ask several authors for the code, as long as they are not exclusively affiliated with commercial companies. Regards Lutz __________________________________ L u t z S c h a e f e r Sen. Scientist Mathematical modeling / Computational microscopy Advanced Imaging Methodology Consultation 16-715 Doon Village Rd. Kitchener, ON, N2P 2A2, Canada Phone/Fax: +1 519 894 8870 Mobile: +1 519 722 8870 Email: [hidden email] Website: http://home.golden.net/~lschafer/ ___________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: Andrew York Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 2:27 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Is Gustafsson-style SIM processing code available? ***** To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy ***** In the papers I've read, Gustafsson et al. give excellent descriptions of their processing algorithms, but I haven't stumbled on any actual processing code, source or compiled, which turns raw SIM data into superresolution images. I've rolled my own just for fun, but it would be nice to compare to the 'gold standard'. Is this code available somewhere that I'm missing? If not, is someone working on this, or does everyone who builds a SIM just roll their own? |
Alberto Diaspro |
*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy ***** friends a great sentence, in my opinion, comes from Giuliano Toraldo di Francia:"…After so many investigations about resolving power, one cannot escape the discouraging concusion that a very common sentence like:"The resolving power of such instrument has such a value" has no meaning. Resolving power is not a well-defined physical quantity…" (Toraldo di Francia, G. (1955) JOSA, vol.45.n.7)… alby On Aug 12, 2013, at 5:35 PM, Golden account <[hidden email]> wrote: > ***** > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to: > http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy > ***** > > Andrew, > I do not think that there can ever be a "gold standard". As there are components needed within the reconstruction that are essentially ill-posed, a multitude of algorithmic solutions approaching the same problem, can be utilized. While other methods that were not originally considered by Mats Gustafsson, such as reconstruction in space domain (e.g. Stallinga et. al) give algorithmic advantages within some components, the original reciprocal space methods can't, it is hard to create a general processing pipeline that take advantage of all variants. However, you might read from time to time about advances on critical aspects, such as "Structured illumination microscopy: artefact analysis and reduction utilizing a parameter optimization approach", (L.H. Schaefer et. al, 2004) or more recently: "Phase Optimization for structured illumination microscopy" (Kay Wicker et. al, 2013). > > For these reasons, you will find that almost everyone who wants to process SIM data in a research context will do it on their own. There are just too many optimization variables, forbidding a general "gold standard" solution. For Mats classical academic implementations (Matlab, etc.) that you mention, I am sure you can ask several authors for the code, as long as they are not exclusively affiliated with commercial companies. > > Regards > Lutz > > __________________________________ > L u t z S c h a e f e r > Sen. Scientist > Mathematical modeling / Computational microscopy > Advanced Imaging Methodology Consultation > 16-715 Doon Village Rd. > Kitchener, ON, N2P 2A2, Canada > Phone/Fax: +1 519 894 8870 > Mobile: +1 519 722 8870 > Email: [hidden email] > Website: http://home.golden.net/~lschafer/ > ___________________________________ > > -----Original Message----- From: Andrew York > Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 2:27 AM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Is Gustafsson-style SIM processing code available? > > ***** > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to: > http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy > ***** > > In the papers I've read, Gustafsson et al. give excellent descriptions of > their processing algorithms, but I haven't stumbled on any actual > processing code, source or compiled, which turns raw SIM data into > superresolution images. I've rolled my own just for fun, but it would be > nice to compare to the 'gold standard'. Is this code available somewhere > that I'm missing? If not, is someone working on this, or does everyone who > builds a SIM just roll their own? |
Reto Fiolka |
In reply to this post by Andrew York
*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy ***** Hi Andrew there was a great interest by Mats and Rainer Heintzmann to have an open source code available. Unfortunately, both have sold their software (Mats to Applied precision and Rainer to Zeiss) and thus it was prohibited to share their code. Which is a bummer, both labs have spent considerable effort in optimizing their code (runtime but also parameter fitting and best treatment in terms of error propagation) and some of its features are quite neat and nifty. Thus all labs that to SIM on their own have so far written their own code. Best, Reto |
Reto Fiolka |
In reply to this post by Andrew York
*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy ***** I have to disagree with the notion by Mr Schaefer that some components in SIM processing are ill-posed. SIM processing at its very basic is numerically very well conditioned. If one uses a proper amount of phase steps with equal spacing over 2Pi, the separation matrix has a low condition number and is thus numerically far from ill-posed (e.g. singular) and can be solved by direct inversion. I remember the condition number in 2D can be as low as 3 and that is far far away from an ill- posed problem. The other needed operations (shifting of the sidebands, linear filtering with the OTF, Apodization and Fourier transforms) are also good conditioned and will not cause generation of much numerical errors, if properly done. Off course great efforts have been dedicated to estimate the grid parameters, but you don't have to! In HELM (essentially SIM) in the group of Prof. Stemmer, we always directly imaged the illumination pattern coherently and measured the interference pattern orientation, period and phase steps precisely. Then you do not need to estimate them! Of most importance for an artefact free reconstruction is the orientation and precise period of the grid pattern, but this can be measured accurately. Even in 3D SIM these experimental parameters can be directly measured, as the coarse pattern can be imaged with a thin fluorescent film. The fine pattern is exactly at twice the frequency of the coarse pattern. As we have shown in the recent paper by Wicker et al on parameter optimization, phase step errors themselves are not that severe, thus in my opinion you do not necessarily need to optimize them. The grid spacing remains fixed in a grating setup and its orientation is reproducible, so such parameters you don't need to estimate, you simply measure them once. Best, Reto |
Ian Dobbie |
In reply to this post by Reto Fiolka
*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy ***** Reto Fiolka <[hidden email]> writes: > Hi Andrew > > there was a great interest by Mats and Rainer Heintzmann to have an open > source code available. Unfortunately, both have sold their software (Mats to > Applied precision and Rainer to Zeiss) and thus it was prohibited to share their > code. > > Which is a bummer, both labs have spent considerable effort in optimizing their > code (runtime but also parameter fitting and best treatment in terms of error > propagation) and some of its features are quite neat and nifty. > > Thus all labs that to SIM on their own have so far written their own code. Maybe we should take this as a call to action to provide something open source. Even it was not extensively optimised for speed, an open source implementation would allow people to check their reconstruction code against a known good source. It seems as though Andrew has working implementation, might that be a place to start? Andrew I don't know if you might be willing to release the code under some open source license and post it somewhere (github or sourceforge maybe?). Ian -- |
Lutz Schaefer |
In reply to this post by Andrew York
Reto, strictly, the inverse filtering is always ill posed and therefore needs regularization. This is mostly done with simple Tikhonov but requires a regularization parameter to be adjusted according to the Gaussian noise content of your measurements. In fluorescence microscopy mostly Poisson photon generation prevails, limiting the usefulness of such simple regularized inverse filter. Further, the correct fusion of the shifted Fourier components in discrete space is nontrivial, e.g. can be done only approximatlely especially under presence of aberrations. Finally, the necessity of the always used apodization before inverse transform indicates yet another form of regularization to prevent artefacts due to incorrect fusion. No matter how its done, this heuristic apodization cuts off higher spatial frequencies. I do not want to comment on your choice of grating shifts, but for certain interests they dont need to be equidistant within 2pi. In my original post, I just wanted to raise awareness of the inherent non triviality and that there cant be a "gold standard" as some aspects are still not fully understood and therefore the potential for improvement exists. Hope that helps for some clarification. Regards Lutz Sent from Samsung Mobile -------- Original message -------- Subject: Re: Is Gustafsson-style SIM processing code available? From: Reto Fiolka <[hidden email]> To: [hidden email] CC: ***** To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy ***** I have to disagree with the notion by Mr Schaefer that some components in SIM processing are ill-posed. SIM processing at its very basic is numerically very well conditioned. If one uses a proper amount of phase steps with equal spacing over 2Pi, the separation matrix has a low condition number and is thus numerically far from ill-posed (e.g. singular) and can be solved by direct inversion. I remember the condition number in 2D can be as low as 3 and that is far far away from an ill- posed problem. The other needed operations (shifting of the sidebands, linear filtering with the OTF, Apodization and Fourier transforms) are also good conditioned and will not cause generation of much numerical errors, if properly done. Off course great efforts have been dedicated to estimate the grid parameters, but you don't have to! In HELM (essentially SIM) in the group of Prof. Stemmer, we always directly imaged the illumination pattern coherently and measured the interference pattern orientation, period and phase steps precisely. Then you do not need to estimate them! Of most importance for an artefact free reconstruction is the orientation and precise period of the grid pattern, but this can be measured accurately. Even in 3D SIM these experimental parameters can be directly measured, as the coarse pattern can be imaged with a thin fluorescent film. The fine pattern is exactly at twice the frequency of the coarse pattern. As we have shown in the recent paper by Wicker et al on parameter optimization, phase step errors themselves are not that severe, thus in my opinion you do not necessarily need to optimize them. The grid spacing remains fixed in a grating setup and its orientation is reproducible, so such parameters you don't need to estimate, you simply measure them once. Best, Reto |
Reto Fiolka |
In reply to this post by Andrew York
*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy ***** Hello Lutz I have worked with Rainer Heintzmann and Mats Gustafsson for some time on SIM and I can tell you from a practical perspective that SIM can be made to work well even without Thikonov regularization or any iterative optimization scheme. We compared the reconstructions to a ground truth (e.g. AFM image of beads) and the results where correct and not bogus. Thus while you are right that there are many improvements possible in the reconstruction, SIM data, if acquired properly, can be reconstructed successfully with a pretty simple, linear, non-iterative algorithm. I am insisting on this since I don't want that people are scared off by the post-processing. Working with Mats, we never had the need to use any regularization in SIM, it was always just linear (one step, non iterative) deconvolution assisted with a Wiener filter (with the Wiener factor inversely proportional to the signal-to-noise ratio ) . In the fusion of the components, in the overlap region a weighted average of the two components according to their signal strength was taken. This made any regularization assisted deconvolution seem unnecessary, since some low SNR regions got substituted by components with high signal strength. The use of a Wiener filter is crude and there is no doubt that there are better statistical measures and tricks, but it worked and it is simple. Since the inner borders of each spectral component got fixed by the overlap, in my opinion only the very border of the reconstructed passband might benefit from regularization assisted reconstruction, but this would not result in much resolution gain. The necessity for an apodization comes from the fact that the reconstructed spectrum has essentially an envelope of a tophat function, which will cause ringing, but would in theory have the best transfer of even the highest frequency components. The choice of apodization is a tradeoff between ringing/undershoots and resolution. Once you have come to a reconstruction of the Fourier components and restored a uniform transfer function within a certain support, this is inevitable. You are right that you can chose your phase steps as you please, however the condition number will increase and in worst case the system becomes singular. Equidistant phase steps result in the lowest condition number. You can of course make more phase steps than necessary and solve the over-determined equation system with a pseudo inverse or other methods. Is this the situation where you consider non equidistant phase steps better? All I wanted to say is that a properly built SIM system (which involves care about drift of components and removing system aberrations) that is operated on not to thick samples (i.e. single cells) worked great in our hands without any constrained iterative reconstruction or other complicated algorithms that might or might not converge to a meaningful solution. It was a pretty deterministic system where there was no need to fumble with reconstruction parameters or anything in daily use once it was properly setup. Off course I appreciate your and other groups efforts to make SIM work in non ideal conditions. This may include thick samples where you have aberrations and the shot noise of the out of focus blur becomes dominant. Or TIRF SIM, where the overlap region of the spectra becomes very limited and noisy. Or nonlinear SIM where the higher harmonics become really weak. Best, Reto |
Lutz Schaefer |
In reply to this post by Reto Fiolka
*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy ***** Dear Reto, appreciating your latest contribution (with Kai, Ondrej and Rainer), I have been working on inverse problems over the last 20+ years and regarding SIM have been in contact with Rainer and the late Mats Gustafsson since about 2001. I mainly agree with your reply, however let me correct you in what appears to me as misunderstandings: > SIM can be made to work well > even without Thikonov regularization > As said previously, you need regularization to approximate a numerical solution to the inverse problem. This has nothing to do how you want solve this problem (e.g. linear, nonlinear, iteratively... etc.). It is important to understand this fact, else your solution will be instable. > it was always just linear (one step, non iterative) > deconvolution assisted with a Wiener filter > Here is what I believe the main part of your confusion. The 'generalized' Wiener filter is identical to solving the inverse problem with a Tikhonov regularized inverse filter (equation 5 in your paper). > (with the Wiener factor inversely proportional to > the signal-to-noise ratio ) > This quantity w in the denominator is in fact identical to the weight between data fit (e.g. likelihood function) and regularization term for the special case of Tikhonov regularization. The data fit term is in this case the Gaussian likelihood, -or residuum, so that the sufficiently general restoration functional: Likelihood + w Regularization approaches a minimum. It can be shown with a simple partial derivative, for the linear Gauss-likelihood, a direct solution, identical to the 'generalized Wiener filter' results in Fourier space. For more details I think we should carry on this conversation off the list... Now to your choice of the regularization parameter w>=0: The approximate(!) relation to the SNR is also known as the "discrepancy method" in the older astronomy literature. This is not necessarily always optimal. Despite the approximate nature of the reciprocal proportionality, the SNR is often not known. Also, the OTF and the observation itself play a role in the determination of your w to satisfy the restoration functional. Often this quantity is found by trial and error. I personally favor a generalized cross validation, which does not always guarantee visually pleasing results. Conclusion, you cannot state (e.g. your last post) that you work without regularization (w=0) as this would result in instability. Regarding apodization: > Once you have come to a reconstruction of the > Fourier components and restored a uniform > transfer function within a certain support, this is inevitable. > I see a limitation in this method suppressing high spatial frequencies, that we actually want to see in the result. As you say, due to the introduction of discontinuities due to fusion, it seems inevitable (in one form or another) in Fourier space, but what about reconstruction in space domain? Regarding phase shifts: > You can of course make more phase steps than necessary and solve the > over-determined > equation system with a pseudo inverse or other methods. Is this the > situation > where you consider non equidistant phase steps better? > You are certainly correct, the condition number is lowest in the trivial, equidistant case. We are using non-equidistant steps to suppress residual stripe artefacts that arise from non-sinusoidal gratings for the incoherent SIM case. We also often gather more data and solve the over determined system of equations via least squares or other suitable methods. > All I wanted to say is that a properly built SIM system (which involves > care > about drift of components and removing system aberrations) that is > operated > on not to thick samples (i.e. single cells) worked great in our hands > without any > I do understand your point that for your samples you were successful most of the time. However, I would be a bit cautious about generalizations thereof. Regards Lutz __________________________________ L u t z S c h a e f e r Sen. Scientist Mathematical modeling / Computational microscopy Advanced Imaging Methodology Consultation 16-715 Doon Village Rd. Kitchener, ON, N2P 2A2, Canada Phone/Fax: +1 519 894 8870 Mobile: +1 519 722 8870 Email: [hidden email] ___________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: Reto Fiolka Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 1:04 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: Is Gustafsson-style SIM processing code available? ***** To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy ***** Hello Lutz I have worked with Rainer Heintzmann and Mats Gustafsson for some time on SIM and I can tell you from a practical perspective that SIM can be made to work well even without Thikonov regularization or any iterative optimization scheme. We compared the reconstructions to a ground truth (e.g. AFM image of beads) and the results where correct and not bogus. Thus while you are right that there are many improvements possible in the reconstruction, SIM data, if acquired properly, can be reconstructed successfully with a pretty simple, linear, non-iterative algorithm. I am insisting on this since I don't want that people are scared off by the post-processing. Working with Mats, we never had the need to use any regularization in SIM, it was always just linear (one step, non iterative) deconvolution assisted with a Wiener filter (with the Wiener factor inversely proportional to the signal-to-noise ratio ) . In the fusion of the components, in the overlap region a weighted average of the two components according to their signal strength was taken. This made any regularization assisted deconvolution seem unnecessary, since some low SNR regions got substituted by components with high signal strength. The use of a Wiener filter is crude and there is no doubt that there are better statistical measures and tricks, but it worked and it is simple. Since the inner borders of each spectral component got fixed by the overlap, in my opinion only the very border of the reconstructed passband might benefit from regularization assisted reconstruction, but this would not result in much resolution gain. The necessity for an apodization comes from the fact that the reconstructed spectrum has essentially an envelope of a tophat function, which will cause ringing, but would in theory have the best transfer of even the highest frequency components. The choice of apodization is a tradeoff between ringing/undershoots and resolution. Once you have come to a reconstruction of the Fourier components and restored a uniform transfer function within a certain support, this is inevitable. You are right that you can chose your phase steps as you please, however the condition number will increase and in worst case the system becomes singular. Equidistant phase steps result in the lowest condition number. You can of course make more phase steps than necessary and solve the over-determined equation system with a pseudo inverse or other methods. Is this the situation where you consider non equidistant phase steps better? All I wanted to say is that a properly built SIM system (which involves care about drift of components and removing system aberrations) that is operated on not to thick samples (i.e. single cells) worked great in our hands without any constrained iterative reconstruction or other complicated algorithms that might or might not converge to a meaningful solution. It was a pretty deterministic system where there was no need to fumble with reconstruction parameters or anything in daily use once it was properly setup. Off course I appreciate your and other groups efforts to make SIM work in non ideal conditions. This may include thick samples where you have aberrations and the shot noise of the out of focus blur becomes dominant. Or TIRF SIM, where the overlap region of the spectra becomes very limited and noisy. Or nonlinear SIM where the higher harmonics become really weak. Best, Reto |
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