Re: iLab Hardware Interlock Module for the Core

[Jeffrey Kuhn]

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As another new microscope core manager (about 4.5 months now), this has been a helpful discussion! We have been using the iLab usage-tracker java app and windows/linux logins to keep track of actual usage. But iLab are no longer supporting this method. Now that the usage-tracker app-pocalypse is fast approaching, we are trying to decide on the way forward.

One of our other core facilities here has been using the iLab kiosk system. They have hardware interlocks connected to each equipment computer's monitor. Unfortunately, they seem to have problems with intermittent network outages. The equipment won't register a kiosk session and the monitor never turns on. Among those of you using the iLab kiosk systems, have you experienced frustrating hardware interlock / kiosk bugs?

I have been contemplating a few ways forward: re-writing something like usage tracker that creates user logs that can be uploaded monthly to iLab, biting the bullet and using the hardware interlocks even though they have been buggy here, or using a software interlock on every computer. Keep in mind that some of our scopes are running linux or windows xp and must be extremely firewalled. For some of the older seldom-used equipment we also use paper logs.

Cheers,
-- Jeffrey

Jeffrey R Kuhn, PhD
Scientific Director, Microscopy Core Facility, Koch Institute at MIT
Room 76-281C, 500 Main Street, Cambridge, MA 02139
tel [phone]   linkedin drjrkuhn   twitter @CellJeffe

[Gary Laevsky]

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Hi Jeffrey,

We've actually written code that monitors the iLab website.  When the
website or the interlock server go down, we internally turn all our
interlocks on.  We lose tracking, but at least the users can do experiments.

On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 1:35 PM Jeffrey Kuhn <[hidden email]> wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> As another new microscope core manager (about 4.5 months now), this has
> been a helpful discussion! We have been using the iLab usage-tracker java
> app and windows/linux logins to keep track of actual usage. But iLab are no
> longer supporting this method. Now that the usage-tracker app-pocalypse is
> fast approaching, we are trying to decide on the way forward.
>
> One of our other core facilities here has been using the iLab kiosk
> system. They have hardware interlocks connected to each equipment
> computer's monitor. Unfortunately, they seem to have problems with
> intermittent network outages. The equipment won't register a kiosk session
> and the monitor never turns on. Among those of you using the iLab kiosk
> systems, have you experienced frustrating hardware interlock / kiosk bugs?
>
> I have been contemplating a few ways forward: re-writing something like
> usage tracker that creates user logs that can be uploaded monthly to iLab,
> biting the bullet and using the hardware interlocks even though they have
> been buggy here, or using a software interlock on every computer. Keep in
> mind that some of our scopes are running linux or windows xp and must be
> extremely firewalled. For some of the older seldom-used equipment we also
> use paper logs.
>
> Cheers,
> -- Jeffrey
>
> Jeffrey R Kuhn, PhD
> Scientific Director, Microscopy Core Facility, Koch Institute at MIT
> Room 76-281C, 500 Main Street, Cambridge, MA 02139
> tel [phone]   linkedin drjrkuhn   twitter @CellJeffe
>

--
Best,

Gary Laevsky, Ph.D.
Director, Confocal Imaging Facility
Nikon Center of Excellence
Co-Founder, North Atlantic Microscopy Society (NAMS)
https://namsmicroscopy.com/
Dept. of Molecular Biology
Washington Rd.
Princeton University
Princeton, New Jersey, 08544-1014
(O) 609 258 5432
(C) 508 507 1310

North Atlantic Microscopy Society Spring Meeting at UPENN, April 23, 2020.

[Cammer, Michael]

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We have software interlock in our core.  It works for Zen and Elements, but not for MicroManager.  
We have stopped using it on the image analysis machines for Imaris and other software.  Instead, someone is supposed to manually enter data into iLab based on the Windows logs.  
Hardware and software interlock have the same problem when Internet is down.

I have heard reports from other cores that use the hardware interlock that you need to lock down the power cables so that people will not simply plug the device in to a different power source.  For instance, putting the interlock and  the power cord inside a locked box.  Really.

The biggest problem with the kiosk and iLab is that if an appointment runs overtime, the system stops recording usage.
For instance:
A user makes a reservation for 2 to 4 pm.
They start the kiosk at 2:10 pm.  This is recorded accurately.  
They work to 6:20 pm.  At 4:15 pm, iLab says the user walked out and stops recording usage.  
Therefore, the time billed is 2 pm to 4:15 pm.  The user got more than 2 hours free and unrecorded.

When we asked iLab about this, the response was that the user would need to log in and extend the reservation.  This is not auditing use.

Also, we find that scheduling and kiosk need to be initiated from a computer with a keyboard and mouse because trying to use the scheduling software with a tablet or phone is difficult, especially if the tablet is mounted to a wall.


Cheers-

Michael Cammer, Sr Research Scientist, DART Microscopy Laboratory
NYU Langone Health, 540 First Avenue, SK2 Microscopy Suite, New York, NY  10016
Office: 646-501-0567 Cell: 914-309-3270  [hidden email]  
http://nyulmc.org/micros  http://microscopynotes.com/
 




-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Jeffrey Kuhn
Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 1:25 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: iLab Hardware Interlock Module for the Core

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Post images on https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.imgur.com&d=DwIFaQ&c=j5oPpO0eBH1iio48DtsedeElZfc04rx3ExJHeIIZuCs&r=E0xNnPAQpUbDiPlC50tp7rW2nBkvV7fujQf0RknE5bU&m=o5uim00yswz59E-jdMPZWa9FPe5luw3bCHbHkcqkCds&s=WHXvEDnrYshMyCB_wRJSXS40l1zWgQZ401mNIN7GQjA&e=  and include the link in your posting.
*****

As another new microscope core manager (about 4.5 months now), this has been a helpful discussion! We have been using the iLab usage-tracker java app and windows/linux logins to keep track of actual usage. But iLab are no longer supporting this method. Now that the usage-tracker app-pocalypse is fast approaching, we are trying to decide on the way forward.

One of our other core facilities here has been using the iLab kiosk system. They have hardware interlocks connected to each equipment computer's monitor. Unfortunately, they seem to have problems with intermittent network outages. The equipment won't register a kiosk session and the monitor never turns on. Among those of you using the iLab kiosk systems, have you experienced frustrating hardware interlock / kiosk bugs?

I have been contemplating a few ways forward: re-writing something like usage tracker that creates user logs that can be uploaded monthly to iLab, biting the bullet and using the hardware interlocks even though they have been buggy here, or using a software interlock on every computer. Keep in mind that some of our scopes are running linux or windows xp and must be extremely firewalled. For some of the older seldom-used equipment we also use paper logs.

Cheers,
-- Jeffrey

Jeffrey R Kuhn, PhD
Scientific Director, Microscopy Core Facility, Koch Institute at MIT Room 76-281C, 500 Main Street, Cambridge, MA 02139
tel [phone]   linkedin drjrkuhn   twitter @CellJeffe

[CF]

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With Agendo, we also used to have Java to do the real-usage tracking, 8 years ago. As the hardware function was expensive, not very flexible and could easily be bypassed, we have changed to an open system, pGina (http://pgina.org/ <https://www.google.com/url?q=http://pgina.org/&sa=D&source=hangouts&ust=1575455375669000&usg=AFQjCNGqG-fR_XrPSRvCZaWtBhx7bDydMg>) - which has been successful amongst our users.

How does pGina work? When a user logs in the windows computer, the pGina software matches the login to the correspondent calendar in Agendo and, thus, real-usage is recorded. Only when the user logs out the computer the session in Agendo is ended. And if there is an internet failure, they can still log in the system and use the resource, but will be registered as “Anonymous” (configurable).

pGina only works on Windows, but that represents over 90% of the computers connected to resources. We also have APIs, so that external apps can certify in Agendo’s system if a given user is the one that performed the booking or not. The range of applications is more limited, but can be easily integrated into a Linux machine.

I hope this post could be useful. Please, feel free to contact us if you have any issues or questions.

Best wishes,

Cláudia Faria
Product Manager | AGENDO
https://www.agendo.science/

> On 2 Dec 2019, at 20:39, Cammer, Michael <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> We have software interlock in our core.  It works for Zen and Elements, but not for MicroManager.  
> We have stopped using it on the image analysis machines for Imaris and other software.  Instead, someone is supposed to manually enter data into iLab based on the Windows logs.  
> Hardware and software interlock have the same problem when Internet is down.
>
> I have heard reports from other cores that use the hardware interlock that you need to lock down the power cables so that people will not simply plug the device in to a different power source.  For instance, putting the interlock and  the power cord inside a locked box.  Really.
>
> The biggest problem with the kiosk and iLab is that if an appointment runs overtime, the system stops recording usage.
> For instance:
> A user makes a reservation for 2 to 4 pm.
> They start the kiosk at 2:10 pm.  This is recorded accurately.  
> They work to 6:20 pm.  At 4:15 pm, iLab says the user walked out and stops recording usage.  
> Therefore, the time billed is 2 pm to 4:15 pm.  The user got more than 2 hours free and unrecorded.
>
> When we asked iLab about this, the response was that the user would need to log in and extend the reservation.  This is not auditing use.
>
> Also, we find that scheduling and kiosk need to be initiated from a computer with a keyboard and mouse because trying to use the scheduling software with a tablet or phone is difficult, especially if the tablet is mounted to a wall.
>
>
> Cheers-
>
> Michael Cammer, Sr Research Scientist, DART Microscopy Laboratory
> NYU Langone Health, 540 First Avenue, SK2 Microscopy Suite, New York, NY  10016
> Office: 646-501-0567 Cell: 914-309-3270  [hidden email]  
> http://nyulmc.org/micros  http://microscopynotes.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Confocal Microscopy List <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Jeffrey Kuhn
> Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 1:25 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: iLab Hardware Interlock Module for the Core
>
> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.umn.edu_cgi-2Dbin_wa-3FA0-3Dconfocalmicroscopy&d=DwIFaQ&c=j5oPpO0eBH1iio48DtsedeElZfc04rx3ExJHeIIZuCs&r=E0xNnPAQpUbDiPlC50tp7rW2nBkvV7fujQf0RknE5bU&m=o5uim00yswz59E-jdMPZWa9FPe5luw3bCHbHkcqkCds&s=stUg2DOpE9joxKSQ2-Wap3NvxwcPWcE9kkFHFk6JasY&e=
> Post images on https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.imgur.com&d=DwIFaQ&c=j5oPpO0eBH1iio48DtsedeElZfc04rx3ExJHeIIZuCs&r=E0xNnPAQpUbDiPlC50tp7rW2nBkvV7fujQf0RknE5bU&m=o5uim00yswz59E-jdMPZWa9FPe5luw3bCHbHkcqkCds&s=WHXvEDnrYshMyCB_wRJSXS40l1zWgQZ401mNIN7GQjA&e=  and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> As another new microscope core manager (about 4.5 months now), this has been a helpful discussion! We have been using the iLab usage-tracker java app and windows/linux logins to keep track of actual usage. But iLab are no longer supporting this method. Now that the usage-tracker app-pocalypse is fast approaching, we are trying to decide on the way forward.
>
> One of our other core facilities here has been using the iLab kiosk system. They have hardware interlocks connected to each equipment computer's monitor. Unfortunately, they seem to have problems with intermittent network outages. The equipment won't register a kiosk session and the monitor never turns on. Among those of you using the iLab kiosk systems, have you experienced frustrating hardware interlock / kiosk bugs?
>
> I have been contemplating a few ways forward: re-writing something like usage tracker that creates user logs that can be uploaded monthly to iLab, biting the bullet and using the hardware interlocks even though they have been buggy here, or using a software interlock on every computer. Keep in mind that some of our scopes are running linux or windows xp and must be extremely firewalled. For some of the older seldom-used equipment we also use paper logs.
>
> Cheers,
> -- Jeffrey
>
> Jeffrey R Kuhn, PhD
> Scientific Director, Microscopy Core Facility, Koch Institute at MIT Room 76-281C, 500 Main Street, Cambridge, MA 02139
> tel [phone]   linkedin drjrkuhn   twitter @CellJeffe

[Denise Ramirez]

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I too have found this discussion very useful. I currently have 6 systems running iLab's soon-to-be sunset Java-based usage tracker (5 Windows and 1 Linux), and I have been using iLab for going on 4 years now with no issues with usage tracking. All of my systems are on the university network and will remain so after upgrade to Windows 10. I can't for the life of me figure out why they wanted to fix something that wasn't broken... The issues that have been mentioned below are all confirming for me why I don't want to set up either the hardware or software interlocks, and indeed the kiosk system in general (which you can do for free if you don't want to do any actual tracking...) The kiosk system is unnecessarily complicated IMO (why do I need to essentially create the same reservation, and login/logout twice???), and I will plan to use the Windows level login information and upload manually to iLab myself once the Java tracker functionality goes away. Would love to hear (offline is fine) from anyone else who plans to do the same, or anyone who has good things to say about either hardware or software interlock.

Even if I hadn't already decided against installing either hardware or software interlocks, the fact that extended use time is apparently not tracked with Kiosk is another huge dealbreaker for me as we often have that situation... thanks for communicating that.

Another issue for me, and I imagine many others, is that my equipment is spread across 4 rooms on 2 floors. I would need to purchase, find space for, install, and maintain another set of basic PCs (at least 2) to allow for kiosk usage to track the usage. As has been communicated below, using the mobile version is difficult (so it would be problematic even if I get a set of iPads), and I would feel uncomfortable requiring users to use their own personal devices to access my equipment.

Denise

Denise M. Ramirez, Ph.D.
Core Manager, Whole Brain Microscopy Facility
Assistant Professor, Dept. of Neurology and Neurotherapeutics
UT Southwestern Medical Center
Dallas, TX 75390-8813
214.648.0203

[Mike Nelson]

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Adding my thanks for this discussion, much better to be aware and prepared
for these sorts of difficulties.

In response to Dr. Ramirez' wondering about why, I *suspect *the fact that
Oracle is now charging for Java is the reason they are removing it. I'm not
sure how the cost is distributed, but maybe someone else will know more.
https://www.aspera.com/en/blog/oracle-will-charge-for-java-starting-in-2019/

There are many more articles like it.
FAQ from Oracle.
https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javaseproducts/overview/javasesubscriptionfaq-4891443.html


Cheers,
Mike


On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 11:31 AM Denise Ramirez <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> I too have found this discussion very useful. I currently have 6 systems
> running iLab's soon-to-be sunset Java-based usage tracker (5 Windows and 1
> Linux), and I have been using iLab for going on 4 years now with no issues
> with usage tracking. All of my systems are on the university network and
> will remain so after upgrade to Windows 10. I can't for the life of me
> figure out why they wanted to fix something that wasn't broken... The
> issues that have been mentioned below are all confirming for me why I don't
> want to set up either the hardware or software interlocks, and indeed the
> kiosk system in general (which you can do for free if you don't want to do
> any actual tracking...) The kiosk system is unnecessarily complicated IMO
> (why do I need to essentially create the same reservation, and login/logout
> twice???), and I will plan to use the Windows level login information and
> upload manually to iLab myself once the Java tracker functionality goes
> away. Would love to hear (offline is fine) from anyone else who plans to do
> the same, or anyone who has good things to say about either hardware or
> software interlock.
>
> Even if I hadn't already decided against installing either hardware or
> software interlocks, the fact that extended use time is apparently not
> tracked with Kiosk is another huge dealbreaker for me as we often have that
> situation... thanks for communicating that.
>
> Another issue for me, and I imagine many others, is that my equipment is
> spread across 4 rooms on 2 floors. I would need to purchase, find space
> for, install, and maintain another set of basic PCs (at least 2) to allow
> for kiosk usage to track the usage. As has been communicated below, using
> the mobile version is difficult (so it would be problematic even if I get a
> set of iPads), and I would feel uncomfortable requiring users to use their
> own personal devices to access my equipment.
>
> Denise
>
> Denise M. Ramirez, Ph.D.
> Core Manager, Whole Brain Microscopy Facility
> Assistant Professor, Dept. of Neurology and Neurotherapeutics
> UT Southwestern Medical Center
> Dallas, TX 75390-8813
> 214.648.0203
>

[Chad Johnson-2]

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*****

Hi All

We have been using WebSwitch interlocks for about 4 months so far and have
found them to be reliable and they have increased our reportable hours
substantially. Calendar bookings are now appearing more frequently on
weekends and after hours.

The trick is usually to get the settings right both on the iLab side and
the interlocks themselves.

We have only had one outage that was caused by a server issue on iLabs end,
so our interlocks have now been set to power on by default. With this
setting the interlocks should turn power on automatically if the cant
contact the bridge for more than a few minutes. We have tested it initially
by simply disconnecting them from the network which causes the interlocks
to switch themselves on. It does not fix the issue with logging the actual
time but at least the instruments will be on. Yes, there is potential for
abuse as with anything but we will be putting a seal on these cables to
dissuade them being overridden by users.

As for logging and billing extended hours, there is a setting in the
equipment calendar under “Billing" that allows you to either bill for the
Scheduled, Logged, or Maximum time.  We use Maximum as this would be from
the beginning of the scheduled booking until whenever the user extends the
booking.

Chad

On Wed, 4 Dec. 2019, 07:14 Mike Nelson, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Adding my thanks for this discussion, much better to be aware and prepared
> for these sorts of difficulties.
>
> In response to Dr. Ramirez' wondering about why, I *suspect *the fact that
> Oracle is now charging for Java is the reason they are removing it. I'm not
> sure how the cost is distributed, but maybe someone else will know more.
>
> https://www.aspera.com/en/blog/oracle-will-charge-for-java-starting-in-2019/
>
> There are many more articles like it.
> FAQ from Oracle.
>
> https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javaseproducts/overview/javasesubscriptionfaq-4891443.html
>
>
> Cheers,
> Mike
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 11:31 AM Denise Ramirez <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > *****
> > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> > http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> > Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your
> posting.
> > *****
> >
> > I too have found this discussion very useful. I currently have 6 systems
> > running iLab's soon-to-be sunset Java-based usage tracker (5 Windows and
> 1
> > Linux), and I have been using iLab for going on 4 years now with no
> issues
> > with usage tracking. All of my systems are on the university network and
> > will remain so after upgrade to Windows 10. I can't for the life of me
> > figure out why they wanted to fix something that wasn't broken... The
> > issues that have been mentioned below are all confirming for me why I
> don't
> > want to set up either the hardware or software interlocks, and indeed the
> > kiosk system in general (which you can do for free if you don't want to
> do
> > any actual tracking...) The kiosk system is unnecessarily complicated IMO
> > (why do I need to essentially create the same reservation, and
> login/logout
> > twice???), and I will plan to use the Windows level login information and
> > upload manually to iLab myself once the Java tracker functionality goes
> > away. Would love to hear (offline is fine) from anyone else who plans to
> do
> > the same, or anyone who has good things to say about either hardware or
> > software interlock.
> >
> > Even if I hadn't already decided against installing either hardware or
> > software interlocks, the fact that extended use time is apparently not
> > tracked with Kiosk is another huge dealbreaker for me as we often have
> that
> > situation... thanks for communicating that.
> >
> > Another issue for me, and I imagine many others, is that my equipment is
> > spread across 4 rooms on 2 floors. I would need to purchase, find space
> > for, install, and maintain another set of basic PCs (at least 2) to allow
> > for kiosk usage to track the usage. As has been communicated below, using
> > the mobile version is difficult (so it would be problematic even if I
> get a
> > set of iPads), and I would feel uncomfortable requiring users to use
> their
> > own personal devices to access my equipment.
> >
> > Denise
> >
> > Denise M. Ramirez, Ph.D.
> > Core Manager, Whole Brain Microscopy Facility
> > Assistant Professor, Dept. of Neurology and Neurotherapeutics
> > UT Southwestern Medical Center
> > Dallas, TX 75390-8813
> > 214.648.0203
> >
>

[Denise Ramirez]

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*****

Hi Gary -

About how often do you experience downtime of the interlock servers? From my experience, downtime of the iLab site itself is relatively rare.

Thanks,
Denise

Denise M. Ramirez, Ph.D.
Core Manager, Whole Brain Microscopy Facility
Assistant Professor, Dept. of Neurology and Neurotherapeutics
UT Southwestern Medical Center
Dallas, TX 75390-8813
214.648.0203

[Denise Ramirez]

*****
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*****

I see. I did not know about charges for Java starting in January. It seems like a likely factor in the decision to sunset the Java tracker. I will say that I would have gladly paid whatever distributed costs for continued use of the Java-based tracker in order to NOT have to use the Kiosk based options. Another thing I am frustrated about is that current users of the Java-based tracker were not given any opportunity to provide feedback to iLab on potential changes to the system BEFORE they reached the decision to sunset the product and force use of Kiosk.

[Cammer, Michael]

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Curious about the following statement:

"We use Maximum as this would be from the beginning of the scheduled booking until whenever the user extends the booking."


In our hands, as I wrote in an earlier posting, iLab throws a "Walkout" if a user stays more than 15 minutes overtime and the usage tracking stops.  You may want to check this.  And if your system is correctly keeping track of time, we would be very interested to see how your setup is different than ours.


Best-


Michael Cammer, Sr Research Scientist, DART Microscopy Laboratory

NYU Langone Health, 540 First Avenue, SK2 Microscopy Suite, New York, NY  10016

[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>  http://nyulmc.org/micros  http://microscopynotes.com/

Voice direct only, no text or messages:  1-914-309-3270 and 1-646-501-0567



________________________________
From: Confocal Microscopy List <[hidden email]> on behalf of Chad Johnson <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2019 6:47:54 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: iLab Hardware Interlock Module for the Core

[EXTERNAL]

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*****

Hi All

We have been using WebSwitch interlocks for about 4 months so far and have
found them to be reliable and they have increased our reportable hours
substantially. Calendar bookings are now appearing more frequently on
weekends and after hours.

The trick is usually to get the settings right both on the iLab side and
the interlocks themselves.

We have only had one outage that was caused by a server issue on iLabs end,
so our interlocks have now been set to power on by default. With this
setting the interlocks should turn power on automatically if the cant
contact the bridge for more than a few minutes. We have tested it initially
by simply disconnecting them from the network which causes the interlocks
to switch themselves on. It does not fix the issue with logging the actual
time but at least the instruments will be on. Yes, there is potential for
abuse as with anything but we will be putting a seal on these cables to
dissuade them being overridden by users.

As for logging and billing extended hours, there is a setting in the
equipment calendar under “Billing" that allows you to either bill for the
Scheduled, Logged, or Maximum time.  We use Maximum as this would be from
the beginning of the scheduled booking until whenever the user extends the
booking.

Chad

On Wed, 4 Dec. 2019, 07:14 Mike Nelson, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.umn.edu_cgi-2Dbin_wa-3FA0-3Dconfocalmicroscopy&d=DwIFaQ&c=j5oPpO0eBH1iio48DtsedeElZfc04rx3ExJHeIIZuCs&r=hUBj2D5n6oKThx2L01qn8IORZb5f-ruLVXPmQ1zQNnM&m=gjbTfXy1mzZfWd3fPHT8TPcyn3Lnxi8jMoqX96sQrWI&s=fLhSzWzyyREg93i04APdlSITchy7OQEOoOA-pjB_jgU&e=
> Post images on https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.imgur.com&d=DwIFaQ&c=j5oPpO0eBH1iio48DtsedeElZfc04rx3ExJHeIIZuCs&r=hUBj2D5n6oKThx2L01qn8IORZb5f-ruLVXPmQ1zQNnM&m=gjbTfXy1mzZfWd3fPHT8TPcyn3Lnxi8jMoqX96sQrWI&s=majAr_92k38cKJUNfMsKzlT31TfV71k_LSM6rvv5a9g&e=  and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Adding my thanks for this discussion, much better to be aware and prepared
> for these sorts of difficulties.
>
> In response to Dr. Ramirez' wondering about why, I *suspect *the fact that
> Oracle is now charging for Java is the reason they are removing it. I'm not
> sure how the cost is distributed, but maybe someone else will know more.
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.aspera.com_en_blog_oracle-2Dwill-2Dcharge-2Dfor-2Djava-2Dstarting-2Din-2D2019_&d=DwIFaQ&c=j5oPpO0eBH1iio48DtsedeElZfc04rx3ExJHeIIZuCs&r=hUBj2D5n6oKThx2L01qn8IORZb5f-ruLVXPmQ1zQNnM&m=gjbTfXy1mzZfWd3fPHT8TPcyn3Lnxi8jMoqX96sQrWI&s=11-yXYSGcYeCFdMhBoZ3CrL6poBxAOntaain7rqx8MM&e=
>
> There are many more articles like it.
> FAQ from Oracle.
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.oracle.com_technetwork_java_javaseproducts_overview_javasesubscriptionfaq-2D4891443.html&d=DwIFaQ&c=j5oPpO0eBH1iio48DtsedeElZfc04rx3ExJHeIIZuCs&r=hUBj2D5n6oKThx2L01qn8IORZb5f-ruLVXPmQ1zQNnM&m=gjbTfXy1mzZfWd3fPHT8TPcyn3Lnxi8jMoqX96sQrWI&s=cVEwIOTKZ48a-nQf_U2OvkgqNCJjCXljUmE7ww8wHWw&e=
>
>
> Cheers,
> Mike
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 11:31 AM Denise Ramirez <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > *****
> > To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.umn.edu_cgi-2Dbin_wa-3FA0-3Dconfocalmicroscopy&d=DwIFaQ&c=j5oPpO0eBH1iio48DtsedeElZfc04rx3ExJHeIIZuCs&r=hUBj2D5n6oKThx2L01qn8IORZb5f-ruLVXPmQ1zQNnM&m=gjbTfXy1mzZfWd3fPHT8TPcyn3Lnxi8jMoqX96sQrWI&s=fLhSzWzyyREg93i04APdlSITchy7OQEOoOA-pjB_jgU&e=
> > Post images on https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.imgur.com&d=DwIFaQ&c=j5oPpO0eBH1iio48DtsedeElZfc04rx3ExJHeIIZuCs&r=hUBj2D5n6oKThx2L01qn8IORZb5f-ruLVXPmQ1zQNnM&m=gjbTfXy1mzZfWd3fPHT8TPcyn3Lnxi8jMoqX96sQrWI&s=majAr_92k38cKJUNfMsKzlT31TfV71k_LSM6rvv5a9g&e=  and include the link in your
> posting.
> > *****
> >
> > I too have found this discussion very useful. I currently have 6 systems
> > running iLab's soon-to-be sunset Java-based usage tracker (5 Windows and
> 1
> > Linux), and I have been using iLab for going on 4 years now with no
> issues
> > with usage tracking. All of my systems are on the university network and
> > will remain so after upgrade to Windows 10. I can't for the life of me
> > figure out why they wanted to fix something that wasn't broken... The
> > issues that have been mentioned below are all confirming for me why I
> don't
> > want to set up either the hardware or software interlocks, and indeed the
> > kiosk system in general (which you can do for free if you don't want to
> do
> > any actual tracking...) The kiosk system is unnecessarily complicated IMO
> > (why do I need to essentially create the same reservation, and
> login/logout
> > twice???), and I will plan to use the Windows level login information and
> > upload manually to iLab myself once the Java tracker functionality goes
> > away. Would love to hear (offline is fine) from anyone else who plans to
> do
> > the same, or anyone who has good things to say about either hardware or
> > software interlock.
> >
> > Even if I hadn't already decided against installing either hardware or
> > software interlocks, the fact that extended use time is apparently not
> > tracked with Kiosk is another huge dealbreaker for me as we often have
> that
> > situation... thanks for communicating that.
> >
> > Another issue for me, and I imagine many others, is that my equipment is
> > spread across 4 rooms on 2 floors. I would need to purchase, find space
> > for, install, and maintain another set of basic PCs (at least 2) to allow
> > for kiosk usage to track the usage. As has been communicated below, using
> > the mobile version is difficult (so it would be problematic even if I
> get a
> > set of iPads), and I would feel uncomfortable requiring users to use
> their
> > own personal devices to access my equipment.
> >
> > Denise
> >
> > Denise M. Ramirez, Ph.D.
> > Core Manager, Whole Brain Microscopy Facility
> > Assistant Professor, Dept. of Neurology and Neurotherapeutics
> > UT Southwestern Medical Center
> > Dallas, TX 75390-8813
> > 214.648.0203
> >
>