low-end B/W camera

[Martin Wessendorf-2]

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Dear all--

About 8 years ago, I bought a Scion 1394 gray-scale camera, to use for
anatomical imaging with a microscope in my lab.  We paid less than
$2,000 for it and it has served well for bothbright-field and
fluorescence work.  However, I'm starting to worry about how much longer
it'll last.  Does anyone have a suggestion for a replacement?

Thanks--

Martin Wessendorf

--
Martin Wessendorf, Ph.D.                   office: [phone]
Assoc Prof, Dept Neuroscience                 lab: [phone]
University of Minnesota             Preferred FAX: [phone]
6-145 Jackson Hall, 321 Church St. SE    Dept Fax: [phone]
Minneapolis, MN  55455                    e-mail: [hidden email]

[Rusty Nicovich]

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Martin,

The field for cheap scientific cameras has exploded recently.  There are a
number of makers packaging sCMOS chips with 65-80% QE (holy crap!) and some
for <$500.

Favorite camera provider would be Point Grey (now FLIR):

https://www.ptgrey.com/

or IDS:

https://en.ids-imaging.com/home.html

The ones from Point Grey are often cheaper, but usually back-ordered for
months.  The IDS offerings are ~2x pricier, but readily available.  Both
are USB 3.x and run through MicroManager with only a little bit of hassle
(or in the maker's software with almost no hassle).  In general, look for
Sony Pregius chips as those are the highest QE offerings.


Kurt Thorn did a good comparison of these cameras when they first came out:

http://nic.ucsf.edu/blog/2016/11/testing-a-point-grey-camera-for-fluorescence-microscopy/

There have been a few preprints of their use in fluorescence microscopy as
well, including one from Hazen Babcock where he used 4 of these:

https://www.ptgrey.com/grasshopper3-50-mp-mono-usb3-vision-sony-pregius-imx250

to do simultaneous multi-color super-res.  4 x 5 MP cameras with 70% QE
running at 100 FPS for $6k, detecting single molecule fluorescence.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/09/09/186544

(There's another using the IDS cameras but the reference escapes me now).

Should be easy to find a model that matches the specs you want in terms of
frame size, pixel size, and frame rate at the price you're expecting.
Might find they can replace some of your old lower-QE CCDs, too.

Thanks,
Rusty



On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:22 AM, Martin Wessendorf <[hidden email]> wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Dear all--
>
> About 8 years ago, I bought a Scion 1394 gray-scale camera, to use for
> anatomical imaging with a microscope in my lab.  We paid less than $2,000
> for it and it has served well for bothbright-field and fluorescence work.
> However, I'm starting to worry about how much longer it'll last.  Does
> anyone have a suggestion for a replacement?
>
> Thanks--
>
> Martin Wessendorf
>
> --
> Martin Wessendorf, Ph.D.                   office: [phone]
> Assoc Prof, Dept Neuroscience                 lab: [phone]
> University of Minnesota             Preferred FAX: [phone]
> 6-145 Jackson Hall, 321 Church St. SE
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=321+Church+St.+SE&entry=gmail&source=g>
> Dept Fax: [phone]
> Minneapolis, MN  55455                    e-mail: [hidden email]
>

[Michael Giacomelli]

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*****

Hi Martin,

There are a huge number of inexpensive Point Grey (now FLIR) cameras
available from Edmunds:

https://www.edmundoptics.com/cameras/usb-cameras/Point-Grey-Blackfly-USB-3.0-Cameras/
https://www.edmundoptics.com/cameras/usb-cameras/Point-Grey-Flea3-USB-3.0-Cameras/

I have had good luck using them for microscopy applications.  If you are
coming from an 8 year old camera, these will probably be somewhere on the
order of 2-10x more sensitive than what you have now for a few hundred
dollars.

If you want to spend more, Thorlabs will sell you an entry level sCMOS
product, which is about a factor of 2-3x lower noise than the Sony sensors
in Flea/Blackfly cameras for about 2-3x higher cost.

Mike

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 12:22 PM, Martin Wessendorf <[hidden email]> wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Dear all--
>
> About 8 years ago, I bought a Scion 1394 gray-scale camera, to use for
> anatomical imaging with a microscope in my lab.  We paid less than $2,000
> for it and it has served well for bothbright-field and fluorescence work.
> However, I'm starting to worry about how much longer it'll last.  Does
> anyone have a suggestion for a replacement?
>
> Thanks--
>
> Martin Wessendorf
>
> --
> Martin Wessendorf, Ph.D.                   office: [phone]
> Assoc Prof, Dept Neuroscience                 lab: [phone]
> University of Minnesota             Preferred FAX: [phone]
> 6-145 Jackson Hall, 321 Church St. SE
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=321+Church+St.+SE&entry=gmail&source=g>
> Dept Fax: [phone]
> Minneapolis, MN  55455                    e-mail: [hidden email]
>

[William Grever]

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To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
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*****

Has anyone had experience with cameras from Basler?

https://www.baslerweb.com/en/products/product-highlights/ace-u-and-ace-l/


Thanks,
Will

-----Original Message-----
From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michael Giacomelli
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 12:51 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: low-end B/W camera

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
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*****

Hi Martin,

There are a huge number of inexpensive Point Grey (now FLIR) cameras
available from Edmunds:

https://www.edmundoptics.com/cameras/usb-cameras/Point-Grey-Blackfly-USB-3.0-Cameras/
https://www.edmundoptics.com/cameras/usb-cameras/Point-Grey-Flea3-USB-3.0-Cameras/

I have had good luck using them for microscopy applications.  If you are
coming from an 8 year old camera, these will probably be somewhere on the
order of 2-10x more sensitive than what you have now for a few hundred
dollars.

If you want to spend more, Thorlabs will sell you an entry level sCMOS
product, which is about a factor of 2-3x lower noise than the Sony sensors
in Flea/Blackfly cameras for about 2-3x higher cost.

Mike

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 12:22 PM, Martin Wessendorf <[hidden email]> wrote:

> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
> *****
>
> Dear all--
>
> About 8 years ago, I bought a Scion 1394 gray-scale camera, to use for
> anatomical imaging with a microscope in my lab.  We paid less than $2,000
> for it and it has served well for bothbright-field and fluorescence work.
> However, I'm starting to worry about how much longer it'll last.  Does
> anyone have a suggestion for a replacement?
>
> Thanks--
>
> Martin Wessendorf
>
> --
> Martin Wessendorf, Ph.D.                   office: [phone]
> Assoc Prof, Dept Neuroscience                 lab: [phone]
> University of Minnesota             Preferred FAX: [phone]
> 6-145 Jackson Hall, 321 Church St. SE
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=321+Church+St.+SE&entry=gmail&source=g>
> Dept Fax: [phone]
> Minneapolis, MN  55455                    e-mail: [hidden email]
>

[Martin Wessendorf-2]

*****
To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
*****

Thank you, Rusty, Mike and Craig for your responses.  This really looks
promising--I greatly appreciate the info!

Martin


On 11/20/2017 11:46 AM, Rusty Nicovich wrote:

> Martin,
>
> The field for cheap scientific cameras has exploded recently.  There are a
> number of makers packaging sCMOS chips with 65-80% QE (holy crap!) and some
> for <$500.
>
> Favorite camera provider would be Point Grey (now FLIR):
>
> https://www.ptgrey.com/
>
> or IDS:
>
> https://en.ids-imaging.com/home.html
>
> The ones from Point Grey are often cheaper, but usually back-ordered for
> months.  The IDS offerings are ~2x pricier, but readily available.  Both
> are USB 3.x and run through MicroManager with only a little bit of hassle
> (or in the maker's software with almost no hassle).  In general, look for
> Sony Pregius chips as those are the highest QE offerings.
>
>
> Kurt Thorn did a good comparison of these cameras when they first came out:
>
> http://nic.ucsf.edu/blog/2016/11/testing-a-point-grey-camera-for-fluorescence-microscopy/
>
> There have been a few preprints of their use in fluorescence microscopy as
> well, including one from Hazen Babcock where he used 4 of these:
>
> https://www.ptgrey.com/grasshopper3-50-mp-mono-usb3-vision-sony-pregius-imx250
>
> to do simultaneous multi-color super-res.  4 x 5 MP cameras with 70% QE
> running at 100 FPS for $6k, detecting single molecule fluorescence.
>
> https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/09/09/186544
>
> (There's another using the IDS cameras but the reference escapes me now).
>
> Should be easy to find a model that matches the specs you want in terms of
> frame size, pixel size, and frame rate at the price you're expecting.
> Might find they can replace some of your old lower-QE CCDs, too.
>
> Thanks,
> Rusty
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:22 AM, Martin Wessendorf <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> *****
>> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
>> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
>> Post images on http://www.imgur.com and include the link in your posting.
>> *****
>>
>> Dear all--
>>
>> About 8 years ago, I bought a Scion 1394 gray-scale camera, to use for
>> anatomical imaging with a microscope in my lab.  We paid less than $2,000
>> for it and it has served well for bothbright-field and fluorescence work.
>> However, I'm starting to worry about how much longer it'll last.  Does
>> anyone have a suggestion for a replacement?
>>
>> Thanks--
>>
>> Martin Wessendorf
>>
>> --
>> Martin Wessendorf, Ph.D.                   office: [phone]
>> Assoc Prof, Dept Neuroscience                 lab: [phone]
>> University of Minnesota             Preferred FAX: [phone]
>> 6-145 Jackson Hall, 321 Church St. SE
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=321+Church+St.+SE&entry=gmail&source=g>
>> Dept Fax: [phone]
>> Minneapolis, MN  55455                    e-mail: [hidden email]
>>

--
Martin Wessendorf, Ph.D.                   office: [phone]
Assoc Prof, Dept Neuroscience                 lab: [phone]
University of Minnesota             Preferred FAX: [phone]
6-145 Jackson Hall, 321 Church St. SE    Dept Fax: [phone]
Minneapolis, MN  55455                    e-mail: [hidden email]